Body slamming and pile driving for Jesus
January 30th, 2006
A ministry called Ultimate Christian Wrestling is growing in popularity in the South, according to a story in the UK’s Telegraph.
Its matches feature traditional pro-wrestling moves such as headlocks and body slams, coupled with themes and stories from the Bible. Its mission is to “minister the Gospel of Christ to the Lost and to see lost souls saved.”
Curtis Parker, pastor of Harvest Church in Winterville, Ga., credits Ultimate Christian Wrestling with increasing the church’s attendance dramatically.
“We have given away cars as an outreach initiative. We have given away 10,000lb of groceries from a truck in our parking lot. But the wrestling has added more people to our congregation than any of these projects. It gets the largest crowds, and it keeps them still for long enough to share.”
The ministry’s founder, Rob Fields, says wrestling and Christianity aren’t incompatible, and uses the Old Testament illustration of Jacob wrestling with an angel as his proof. Can you say, “taken out of context,” boys and girls?
Gimmicks like this are the result of churches not holding an adequate belief about the gospel being the power of God to salvation. I fear the number of false converts this “ministry” is most likely producing.
Thanks to Brad for the link.
You keep them with what you them with. If it takes this to get them into church this week, what will you need next week?
I think Tim should volunteer to host a Super Bowl party for this church.
We’ve had some really successful Sundays at our church in the past year…
“Toga Party Sunday”
“Show and Tell” Sunday School day
“Disco Sunday” (we put up a big disco ball over the pulpit); the message that day was “Stayin’ Alive for Eternity”
“Pajama Sunday”
“Nascar Sunday” went over real big; I drove a mini-race car into the auditorium to start my message, which was titled “Life’s Greatest Race”
We’ve had to go to three services!
Thanks, Tim, for the url of this wrestling team! Now we can get an annual rotation going with them and the Power Team!
There’s a new “church” here in St. Louis that has been advertising recently; I believe it’s called ‘Element Church’ and meets at one of the YMCA’s around here. Krispy Kreme’s and coffee are served before the lengthy 45-min service. For the first few weeks, raffles were held for several new video iPod’s and xbox 360’s. The radio advertisement is what kills me, though; they say that Element Church may be a good fit for “those who find church to be boring, or those who have ADD.”
I’m thinking about filling a ritalin prescription and stopping by next Sunday.
“We have given away cars as an outreach initiative.”
What on earth is an “outreach initiative,” a door prize?
BTW, we are having our Souper Bowl party at church next weekend Tim. Bring a dollar and a can of soup for RIFA and you can join in the fun. Our worship service starts at 4:30. We’ll watch the first half of the game after church and enjoy some home made chilli.. Hope you can come!
Thanks for the invite, Joel, but I’m previously committed. I’ll be watching the first part of the game before heading to church at 6 p.m.
Maybe next time Tim. Say a prayer for my everlasting soul!
Well, Tim, let me throw this at you. It sorta has to do with the “do what you can to bring ‘em in” ordeal.
Just to start off, let me go ahead and clarify that my church does not meet on Sunday nights. We have a ton of small groups, which we call “cell groups” or “lifegroups.” We are actually a network of four congregations in the greater Savannah area, with a new congregation plant currently being deployed. We feel that it is better that instead of one congregation growing and growing and growing, once one congregation (which usually happens to be our original congregation) grows large enough, we send out a team to plant another congregation.
Anyway, I guess that didn’t matter, but I already typed it, so I’ll leave it in. I think there is only one cell group in out network that meets on Sunday nights, which happens to be another youth group. I’m not sure what they will be doing this coming Sunday. Personally, I attend a youth group that meets on Wednesday nights.
We are having a Youth Super Bowl Party for highschoolers at our church office, where we usually meet on Wednesdays. We will be showing the game outside in our property, which is an open field where we will build our first actual church building one day (all of our congregations meet each Sunday in either a school or some other building). It will be put up on a large screen that is too big to be put up indoors, along with a bonfire close by so as to provide some warmth. Anyway, to make a long story sh-well I think I’ve already surpassed the short status, sorry. We are using this as an outreach event.
This will be something our other friends will be comfortable coming to. While they are hanging out with us funloving group, we will invite them to come Wedensday. If they agree, great! If not, maybe we planted a seed and someone else can water it - or it just be watered by us later down the road.
Hopefully that someone would become a regular attender of our group, learning about Christ as we go along.
Sure, it was the Superbowl that attracted them at first, but it was the people (and God) that attracted them to get involved.
Do you disagree with this idea?
I guess the real question comes down to the difference in “fellowship” and “gimmicks.”
The Super Bowl, Souper Bowl or any other football watching party this Sunday at a church is in my mind a fellowship event. Most of the people attending will probably be members of your own church or friends of members of your church that would have watched the game together wherever they went.
To me the problem lies in the churches that are marketing Jesus to get people in the door. The scripture and God don’t need to be marketed. They’ve fended for themself fairly well for a couple thousand years.
When I first read the article above I thought “Only in the south.” So I gotta admit, it sounds a little cheesey. But I gotta say that I appriciate the creativity. At least they are trying something, unlike most churches out there who are plateauing or declining. I like what Scott’s church is doing and I don’t see how anyone can disagree with that sort of idea. In my humble opinion, part of the reason the church is in trouble is that many people have sucked the creativity out of the process and are still doing church in the 1950’s.
What some on this post have called gimmicks, I call creativity. Even if they fail, at least they have tried something to minister to the wrestling chadre of their society. That is much more than most of the other churches have done.
Hey Scott, from what I gather from your “brief” comment above, I see you providing a fellowship to your peers. I do the same thing (at my house) on occasional evenings that we don’t hold Worship services. My wife and I invite couples or sometimes singles that do not attend Church to fellowship with our Christian friends…
BTW, just a bit of info for you… I used to attend Elim Baptist Church in Ludowici…. Ever hear of it??
OOPS, sorry Tim, I strayed from the original posted topic… consider this a round-house kick for love….
But Nick, where do you draw the line? I think too often “creativity” is an excuse to be extra-biblical in our attempts to reach people for Christ. I’d rather a church be biblical in its approach and see fewer converts than for a church to be extra-biblical and see many “converts” — because most of the time in the latter case, the conversions aren’t genuine anyway.
“Brothers and sisters in Christ! Tired of being on the ‘receiving end’ of gladiatorial events? Join us when the Church of Corinth presents ‘Ultimate Christian Gladiators’!
Hey, why should the pagans have all the fun? Besides, look at how many folks pack that amphitheater to see the blood and gore, we can have that many folks in the church too if we just give ‘em what they want. If it brings one person to Jesus it will be all worth it!
Somehow I missed that approach in Paul’s writings. I’ll go back and look again though just to be sure.
Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!
See the pastor vs the minister of music in the 1st ever Tractor Pull For Jesus.
Tickets available….call the church office for details!
BE THERE!
I believe that in 1 Corinthians 9 Paul stated, and I paraphrase, that we need to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING we can to “earn” a hearing with people and ultimately win them to Christ WITHOUT COMPROMISING THE INTEGRITY OF THE GOSPEL. Ultimately, God is the final arbiter of how well or of how poorly we’ve accomplished our tasks that He’s given us. I cannot fathom ever being associated with a wrestling outreach / fellowship event. But I’ve learned in 18 years of vocational ministry that starting conversations with the sentence “God could NEVER use this or that means of reaching people” is a dangerous proposition. How many of you young guys are currently in a “border” war with the senior set over praise and worship choruses vs. hymns? The fact that any of us wouldn’t try something doesn’t necessarily make it an ungoldy pursuit. Gordon Cloud defines a legalist as “anybody Remember, friends, that the Pharisees and Saducess thought that they had the market cornered on God’s methods and ways. That didn’t turn out so well, did it?
Gordon Cloud quote from above….” a legalist is anybody who preaches against something that you don’t”. Good word, Gordon!
Ahh the Pharisees and Saducees, the stock example when people question this kind of thing. The Pharisees and Saducees had ignored the clear teaching of God’s Word and had developed their own methods and standards of worship and morality. It was those methods they were sold out to rather than God’s Word. That was the problem. I don’t see a lot of difference in that approach and the pragmatism of today, illustrated by this wrestling organization, which believes man’s methods are superior to God’s word (or are at the least a necessary supplement) for drawing the lost ot Christ.
Thanks for making my point, Larry. Let’s not get sold out to OUR methods. The legalists of Jesus’ day believed that they were the keepers of God’s Word….they were in the wrong….but they sincerely believed that they were honoring God with their standards and practices. Let us not be found similarly guilty. Before anyone thinks me a heretic, please note in my original reply to this post the phrase “without compromising biblical integrity”. Also, Larry, there seems to be less “questioning of this kind of thing” in the replies to Tim’s original post and much more presuming to speak on God’s behalf. Deep breath, everyone.
So is it presuming to speak on God’s behalf if we say that the God-ordained method of reaching the lost is the preaching of the gospel?
Is strict adherence to the Word of God and its sufficiency our method or God’s method?
The Word of God is sufficient and the message never changes, Marty. I thought you knew me better than that (smile). The methods in delivering the never-changing message, however, MUST be ever-changing. The days of “ya’ll come” Christianity are long passed. I’m not advocating that we abandon the Gospel in ANY regard (I’m so fundamentally right-wing about this I fly in circles, man!). We must give the audience nothing but THE blood. But if I’m reading right, there seems to be a lot of “presuming to speak for God” in how we get the audience assembled. I believe that there’s only One Way to The Father. I believe that salvation is “by faith alone through grace alone”. But I do NOT believe in singularly inspired methods to gain an audience.
Great topic. And perplexing.
The pastor comments about all the things they’ve done to increase church attendance. Giving away cars and all that seems rather goofy. But if they attend and hear the gospel and hear that it is move valuable than anything & if one person gets saved at these events, is it then OK? Just asking.
I agree with Tim that gimmicky outreaches could create false converts. But if they are preaching the real deal…
Also curious what you folks think of organized fighting like Boxing and MMA. Do you think it is OK as a Christian to participate in these endeavors?
I think (for the most part) you can participate in anything you want to as a Christian. Unless I am overlooking it, there is nothing in the Bible that lists the blueprints for what Christians can and cannot do in the job field.
Zoner,
My problem with the whole argument of “if one person gets saved it must be ok” is where does it all stop? My fear is that that line of thinking can lead to justifying anything in the name of evangelism. (not that you are supporting that argument. I know you’re just raising the issue).
I think that in many cases the root of all these strategies for reaching the lost is the idea that God’s way is just not working well enough or fast enough and that we need to help Him out.
The more I read this..the more I think I realize why it is people are so turned off by the whole Christian faith these days. We are basically arguing on how people are attempting to get people to come to church.
Today’s church has to get it’s focus back on things that matter and stop worrying about it’s public image. Are we doing this right? Are we doing that right?
Just get down to the job of descipleship and let God take care of the rest.
Man Steven, you and I are just going at it today, aren’t we? Maybe you and I need a steel cage.
I understand your point. But does that mean we shouldn’t discuss silliness like this professional wrestling stuff? I don’t think we can always let stuff like this slide by. I think there’s a lot of value in these kinds of discussions.
I didn’t mean te post was bad….
I love discussion.
It was more a broad stroke at the ginormous problem in Americas churches of arguing within whether or not we are doing things right or they are doing things right.
You need a chat room!
this isn’t a chat room?
David B,
No, I’m sorry, I haven’t heard of it. Do you still live anywhere around here? I’m up in Richmond Hill in Bryan County.
I won’t rehash all the arguments. This is not much different than the old “Power Team” group, only presumably more violent.
A question/thought:
Might it be that our focus too fixed on “increasing attendance” and church growth? That’s a typical American mindset - make it bigger or you’re not succeeding. Don’t hear me questioning the value of evangelism. But it is indeed a low view of the church that allows a worship service to center around a couple guys in spandex in a choreographed tussle.
Scott, I was stationed at Ft. Stewart for the last 2 years I was in the ARMY. Have you ever heard of Ft. Stewart??? Just kidding, I know you have (even though you are from Richmond Hill….) If you take Oglethorpe Highway west out of Hinesville, its about 4 miles out and 4 miles north. I now live in the great state of Illinois….
oops, sorry again Tim from straying from the original topic… consider this a pile-driver of love…..
Wow. I hadn’t checked back since I posted yesterday and this topic has exploded!
Interesting that Alex put this in the same group as the “Power Team” (which is probably a bad example because their leader had an affair). But my question is are you guys concluding that any Christian entertainment that has the purpose of evangelism is a gimmick? That is what it’s starting to sound like. Is it wrong then to host a Christian commedian to invite unsaved friends to come see? Is it wrong to host a Christian band? Is it wrong to host any Christian entertainment?
Tim, you asked where do I draw the line, and I agree, there have got to be limits. I’m not sure if I would want my church to host this wrestling thing. I was initially responding to what seemed to be a backlash about this issue, making the point that we have to at least respect the heart for the lost when so many churches don’t, even if you disagree with the method. My question back, then, is where do you draw the line on the other end? What will you allow? If we only allow a speaker in a suit to talk about theology in out church doors, then the church is doomed.
My fear is that the baby will be thrown out with the bath water. Just because this wrestling idea is not your thing does not mean that events are not good.
Thanks for letting me post
But see, I think if a church is properly doing what it should do, there shouldn’t be a need for hosting such “Christian entertainment.” I’m not saying Christian concerts are bad, but why do churches feel so compelled to use such methods all the time? Probably because they’re trying to make up for their deficiencies. My church doesn’t do anything like that. We don’t host concerts. We don’t host comedians. But our members are involved in people’s lives outside the doors of the church, and because of that we see people converted.
I go back to what Gordon said — you keep them with what you win them.
Don’t these methods to get crowds send the message to the world that we are desperate? Aren’t we actually telling the world that we are so scared of failing that we are willing to try anything and everything to get crowds together?
Also, if we throw a circus to get a crowd together and then say, “Now that you’re here I want to tell you all about Jesus,” I think we are saying something about the weightiness of our message or lack thereof.
And the church is never doomed by the way.
You say, Steven, “The more I read this..the more I think I realize why it is people are so turned off by the whole Christian faith these days.” I respectfully disagree.
This type of reasoning shows up fairly regularly in comments. If we dare criticize someone else or disagree or, God forbid, argue over a doctrinal point, somehow we have just made it harder for lost people to come to Christ.
Where on earth do we get the idea that people don’t come to Christ because Christians disagree about issues in a forum like this? It’s like if all of us Christians totally agreed on everything then the whole world would come to Christ. Hogwash.
Jesus made it really clear why anyone is turned off by the Christian faith, and it’s not because Christians are having heated internet debates about outreach methods: “And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed” (John 3.19-20).
I too agree with Gordon. Put another way, worldly methods result in worldly converts.
Its madness to assume we can use the world’s methods and not reap their results.
I am simply saying we seem to be blurring the line between the world and Christianity. If we look so much like the world why should people change? Isn’t the purpose of being a Christian to “go against the flow” to “not do it like everyone else” or to “strip off all the old and become unlike you were?”
If that is the case…why do we seem to try and mimick the world so much?
You’re reading into my comments a little too much.
My point has always been…Christianity needs a few more original ideas and needs to quit copying things the secular world throws out there. It goes back to the above point.
Tim!
Is that you climbing up on the turnbuckle with a folding chair?
I Cor. 1:21 “For after that in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of PREACHING to save them that believe.”
If we keep it up, we’ll catch the Christian music post in number of comments. Is that still the record holder? What is the record, Tim?
I think we’re getting off point entirely. I have yet to read a single post (mine included) that’s arguing how people get genuinely converted. The point of the Super Bowl, or Christian wrestling (I still laugh out loud when I read that phrase), or hosting a concert, etc…. is to creatively attract a crowd. Once the crowd is assembled, if this is a legitimate evangelistic event, you give them the one and only message of Jesus and His love. The bottom-line of this is that while there is only one gospel message, and to that message we must be true and uncompromising, there are many ways to attract a crowd in order to hear it. The message is singular and inspired. The methods of gaining an audience are not.
I have posted and article on my blog that speaks to this issue. It is longer than I wish to post here. Tim was so kind as to give me permission to invite you to come view it. Thanks Tim!
www.heavenlyheartburn.blogspot.com
Forgive me - isn’t this only a problem because we Americans are so idle and eager to be entertained? The first church lived in a violent, entertainment-soaked culture such as ours, but I cannot imagine the early Roman believers arguing over if they should bring in some gladiators to draw people to the gospel. Do we really want to use methods that appeal to the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life? If we sow to the flesh, what are we going to reap?
Amen, Paige. Well said. Thanks for contributing.
Wow, Paige. Excellent observation.
Riddle me this: We worship an unchanging God, Believe in His unchangable word, A single way to reach His heaven, Right? Then why do we insist in changing our methods to “reach the crouds”? Maybe we should put more emphases on living different from the world; i.e. like Christians. Maybe then people would come to see what makes us different! Sort of like a house and a house on fire - Which draws the larger crowd quicker? Just a few thoughts from past experience.
since when has church been boring?
If church is “boring”, how much of the problem lies with the ‘boree’ [excuse the coining of a word] rather than the church program. Hope you catch my drift! I view a real danger of falling into an entertainment mode as opposed to evangelism.
And correct me if I’m mistaken, but wasn’t a lot of New Testament converts the results of a “one-on-one” approach and not from crowds? (Sorry about the earlier spelling error.)
“I view a real danger of falling into an entertainment mode as opposed to evangelism.”
Good point, but don’t many churches already do this with non participatory worship and special music programs?
Just thinking out loud.
earlp-
What is your church doing (deliberately and consistently) in the area of evangelism?