“God and country” worship services
June 28th, 2006
With the July 4 weekend approaching, I thought I’d repost what I wrote last year concerning the “God and country” worship services we so often find in churches. It still applies:
I can’t begin to describe how much I detest the “God and country” worship services taking place in most churches this weekend. Yes, I’m thankful to God for the way he’s blessed the United States, and I’m thankful for living in a place where we enjoy the freedoms we do. I’m also thankful and deeply appreciative for the sacrifices so many have made to secure these freedoms.
But there is a proper place to recognize these sacrifices and honor our country, and a worship service on Sunday morning isn’t it. A worship service is supposed to be about honoring Almightly God for the redemption He has provided through our Lord Jesus Christ. We should be worshipping God, not the United States. At the church I was going to attend this morning (not the church we normally attend), I went to Sunday School but didn’t stay for worship when I saw the songs that were going to be sung — including “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” and “My Country, ‘Tis of Thee” — and that the congregation was going to recite the “Pledge of Allegiance” during the service. I didn’t feel like vomiting in church, because civil religion like this churns my stomach. It diverts praise rightly due God to the United States, and that’s idolatry.
Tim, I’d never really thought about it like that, mostly I detested the practice because it always comes off painfully hoakie. Unfortunately, I don’t see any change coming. Lots more I could say, but then I’d begin rambling. Thanks for getting my mind working so early in the morning!
As I have learned more about the proper worship of God, I must say that anything, even being thankful for the country we live in, that diverts attention from worshiping God in spirit and truth is, in fact, idolatry. While recognizing how fortunate I am to live in a country where it is still, for now, acceptable to worship God, we must realize that worship is all about God, not about us. Bro. Tony has a fabulous post on his blog about this subject, not necessarily talking about “patriotism,” but about proper worship.
www.brotonysblog.blogspot.com/2006_05_01_brotonysblog_archive.html
Couldn’t agree more. Add Mother’s Day and Father’s Day to the list.
Add Mother’s Day and Father’s Day to the list.
Don’t forget Christmas and Easter too. At the church I first attended and later joined, they always had musicals on those days instead of preaching. I always thought this to be odd considering these two days are the two days out of the year that most people who claim Christ as savior attend if they have not attended any other time of the year. This is a great opportunity to preach truth and convey the importance of the death, burial and ressurrection of Christ and instead, the deacons (really the choir leader- as she ran the show) decided to have a musical or sorts. Yeah, it was music about Christ, his birth, his gift to man etc, but absolutely no preaching. What is more, people would leave the church talking about how beautiful the decorations were and how pretty the songs sounded w/o mention of Christ. It is as if that church was nothing more than a white-washed tomb.
Rant off
j razz
It ticks me off to no end when our current President - like Reagan before him - uses the “City on a Hill” imagery to describe the United States. At my church this weekend, we’re having a baby dedication and commissioning a short-term missions team. I imagine that we will thank God for our country during one of our times of corporate prayer, but that will be the extent of it.
Count your many blessings. Living in this country is a blessing and I will count it Sunday. Try doing anything you do in China. Try even having a worship service. God gave us a wonderful gift when he gave this country religious freedom and I seriously doubt singing some songs about the country or saying the pledge doesn’t glorify God, Same for your Mother and Father. I can’t imagine not having this freedom or not living here. I can’t image not having a mother or father, the breath I breathe the voice I sing with or the eyes I have to view his glorious creations!
Amen to Tim AND Craig…are we triplets seperated at birth?
We NEVER “celebrate” July 4th, Mothers or Fathers Day at Southside. We come to worship the Almighty in the name of Jesus Christ. That type of “service” has its roots in a day when many people were simply “social” church goers.
My congregation is made up of people who are recent converts, along with many others who attend who are still exploring this (as they put it) “Jesus thing” and I refuse to take my eye off the ball and feed them something other than the gospel and how the power of that gospel can and will radically change your life.
I’ve only been asked once about one of those secular “holidays” and my responce was, “there are about 30 churches in Wadsworth that will center on that day, go there if that is what you are looking for. We’re in Acts 4 and we’re staying on track”.
Wow. Rants about a Mavericks pep rally in church I understand getting upset about. But…
Recognizing the blessings we receive from God IS God-honoring. It shouldn’t replace God, but it IS worship. God is a jealous God and will strike down that which we put above Him, but thanking Him for what He bestows on us is also our calling, be it our Country and freedoms, our parents, financially, etc.
(I’m obviously in small company on this topic, so that’ll probably be it for my commentary…
Great thoughts as usual Tim. I agree with you completely about the focus of our worship. However, I think this idea of putting God with country hearkens back to the day when most citizens thought of their country as somehow serving as an instrument of God’s influence in the world. As America has grown more secular, this is no longer true (if it ever were true). To older Americans, it sounds strange to hear younger people decrying the use of pariotic songs and imagery in church. In their time, the mission of God was the mission of their country. At one time, politicians used religious imagery to call America to what it could become. Just listen to the speeches by Martin Luther King. Sadly, we have lost those moorings. These days, worship services which feature pariotic themes come off like simple, right-wing political cheerleadng. Using God as a poster boy for any political party is offensive.
It is likely that many, if not most, churches will take the “God-and-country” theme to an unhealthy and unholy extreme. But….
Most worship services by their very nature are “thematic” in that the worship songs, whether they be hymns or choruses, focus somewhat narrowly on an individual aspect of God’s attributes. Even if human words were adequate to describe God in His entirety, the 1 1/2 hours most give for the endeavor of worship would not be time enough to do so. Exegetical preaching (the style I have chosen) even lends itself to “topics” and themes on occasion.
My point is this….on the Sundays that come on either side of our nation’s birthday those responsible for planning worship in their respective churches will either get it right or they will get it wrong. If those that choose to genuinely and intentionally lead their congregations to worship God with a specific emphasis placed upon His sovereignty in the establishment of this country on Christian principles, good for them.
But if they make it an occasion to disgrace God by a shameless play toward patriotism ABOVE the worship of God, woe to them.
But Jason, look at the words of the some of the songs that so many people will be singing in a worship service on Sunday:
“My country ’tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.”
We’re singing to our country, not to God. The lyrics themselves say as much.
What if I were to sing, “My dog Gus ’tis of thee, fat mutt of gluttony, of thee I sing”? Is my dog Gus a blessing from God? Sure he is (although sometimes I wonder …). But am I elevating the dog to a place he doesn’t belong in a worship service that’s supposed to be about God? Absolutely.
Uugh…you can’t leave a dissenter well enough alone, can you…
But you’re right. We can pervert anything from what it could be. We’re very gifted at that. However, to say that recognizing an appreciation for our Country - a blessing from God - is not appropriate in church doesn’t make sense to me.
Let’s say we don’t pervert it. Is the purest thanksgiving we can give to God for our Country appropriate for Church? Sure. Fortunately, God doesn’t require only perfect worship that we are incapable of. He accepts our sinful best if our hearts seek to glorify Him through that worship.
I think Tony says it well that it is incumbant on the worship leader to plan an APPROPRIATE service be it for any “theme”. The definition of “appropriate service leadership” is long and convoluted, but certainly foremost is not placing anything else above Christ - be it Mom, Dad, or Country. So pick appropriate songs (and sermons) and focus on God, thanking Him for everything He’s given to us.
Our fathers’ God, to Thee,
Author of liberty,
To Thee we sing;
Long may our land be bright
With freedom’s holy light;
Protect us by Thy might,
Great God, our King.
That’s the last verse. The song describes all the reasons we should be thankful for what we have. At the end it gives ultimate thanks and glory to God!
I second what Jason says!
Tim, I don’t begrudge you your point on some of the songs chosen for these patriotic type services, especially “My Country…” Why it’s in a hymnal, I’ll never understand. The short history of it suggests that it was a thumbing of the nose to the British (the tune is of the British national anthem). Putting American words to it is somewhat akin to the recent flap of the Latino version of the national anthem.
That said, I can’t seem to find the contempt in a patriotic themed worship service providing it is made clear that God is to be praised and worshipped, not the USA. I agree that there are some extreme cases of this, but I’m not willing to concede that they’re the rule and we’re the exception.
j razz - Can music be a suitable form of delivering the gospel? I don’t doubt that many times it’s used as a gimic; I even have (sadly) been involved in a number of productions that seemed to lift up the actors and/or singers more so than the message. However, it sounds like you’re underestimating the power of music to bring the message. Sure, music may not work for you, but I know it works for others. As long as the message being presented would leave me with a sense that Christ could reach somebody, preferably the majority, I don’t have a problem with it; and for that matter, I would rather listen to a good baritone sing Cornerstone than than listen to some preachers. There are other ways of evangelism than preaching.
Sorry for the long post, Tim. I figure I lost your attention somewhere around “begrudge.”
>But Jason, look at the words of the some of the songs that so many people will be singing in a worship service on Sunday:
“My country ’tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing.”
It’s not the words that we sing that define worship, it’s what’s in our heart. How do we know that when we hear people singing this lyric that they’re worshiping the state and not reflecting on the freedoms that God has blessed them with? If we use that standard, then every Sunday, 100% of the congregation is worshiping God in Spirit and truth just because they’re singing songs with words about ’surrendering all’ … yet how many are truthfully singing that from the heart? We can hope for a proper balance of worship and reflection by what is said and preached from the pulpit - but that can’t be deduced by the choice of a song.
Misawa –
Nah, don’t be silly. I made it through your first paragraph before it lost my attention. Oh, and then I skipped down to see your last statement. Obviously, or I wouldn’t know to write this post.
OK, I’ve rambled on long enough.
Roger,
With all due respect, you’re essentially saying that the words we sing don’t matter, as long as what is in our hearts is right. I couldn’t disagree more.
Does that mean it’s OK to sing “Tubthumpin” by Chumbawumba in a worship service as long as we’re worshipping God in our hearts?
OK, I just laughed out loud at work.
It was probably the image of seeing Tim head-bobbin’ to that song with his hands raised in worship…
Part of worship is giving thanks and the blessings we receive from God’s bountiful hand. Among those blessings, the nation and its freedoms (for the time being anyway.) God Bless America is a prayer. I see nothing wrong with it.
Words we sing are extremely important.
“There was a time when the Son was not.”
It was sung with much love for God. Unfortunately, it was a heinous heresy that came very close to hijacking the Church.
>With all due respect, you’re essentially saying that the words we sing don’t matter, as long as what is in our hearts is right. I couldn’t disagree more.
No. I’m just warning against judging what’s in people’s hearts based on lyrics that aren’t inherently blasphemous. If the lyrics said ‘Of thee oh great nation that we come into this place to worship and pray to’ - then we’d have a problem.
Let’s not get hung up on the externals when it’s the internals that matter most.
Sure, music may not work for you, but I know it works for others.
I don’t think it is a matter of pragmatics: whatever works. It is a matter of scriptural mandate. How is it that a man may be saved? By the gospel. Can the gospel be presented in song form? Yes… but preaching is clearly laid out in scripture as the means by which the gospel shall be shared. The disciples/apostles did not go around putting on musicals no matter what Monty Python thinks or the maker of Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat thought.
Musicals are great and musing, but when we get to the heart of the issue, I think there is a reason that preaching was chosen to deliver the most important message man could ever hope to hear. Clear arguments are made from scripture giving proof to the person and Godhood of Christ. People dressed in patriotic clothing singing about Jesus just doesn’t connect the weightiness of the sin of man that goes along with the truth of the good news contained in the resurrection of Jesus.
Singing has its place, but its place is not primary in worship. God did not give us a hymnal to live by, but a collection of writings, inspired by Him, penned by His chosen writers to convey everything we need to know to conform us to His image. With that being said, should we not focus on that? Should not our leadership see the importance of scripture and focus on that whenever we come together as a body to worship?
I think there is a lot more that underlies this discussion than song choice and holidays.
j razz
I can’t see how my country tis of thee doesn’t glorify God. Is there a bette example? I will say that lyrics are important but this basic argument does deal with the hearts of those worshiping and the leader of that worship.
>Does that mean it’s OK to sing “Tubthumpin” by Chumbawumba in a worship service as long as we’re worshipping God in our hearts?
One more thing - if our hearts our worshiping God, why would we be singing Chumbawumba? Getting our hearts right is priority one, the externals will follow and we won’t and shouldn’t have to worry about it after that. That is unless God is concerned with our hearts plus a certain decorum of worship. But we worship God in Spirit and Truth w/o any qualifiers outside of that. So, if I feel like worshiping God by making a joyful noise (by attempting to sing) and banging on a drumset, it’s just as pleasing to Him as the most beautiful voice singing a traditional hymn from the choir.
As long as your focus is Christ centered I don’t believe anything is wrong with singing patriotic songs as long as they also focus on God. There is nothing wrong with mentioning mothers on Mother’s day and fathers on Father’s day as long as the focus is on Christ. I don’t see your point Tim unless you are referring to the whole service as being dedicated to the theme. If that is the case then I agree wholeheartedly.
Man looks at the outside, God looks at the heart.
Oh, that all of our hearts would long to worship God in spirit and in truth, and that we would be transparent about it. I cannot say what the condition is of each church community. I would simply pray that we recognize that God is our refuge and our strength, whether we choose to “observe” Independence Day (USA) in a worship service or not. Let us be wise and balanced in how we deal with this. The discussion here is much appreciated by me in my role as worship/song leader at my church. I pray that the hearts of our leaders (pastors, deacons, worship teams) would be biblically based and balanced not only this Sunday, but every time we meet to worship God.
I wonder if the problems we have with “patriotism” in services is nothing more than seeing it poorly done, as was mentioned earlier. We here know that words mean things, but not everyone holds to that. May we continue to seek God and, as Dr. Blackaby says, to follow Him in the direction He is leading us.
Folks in earlier generations who have been through World War 2 see patriotism differently. They do not dichotomize faith in God and faith in country and faith in family. These values are tied all together in their eyes.
You know I get the same feeling when the flag is saluted or pledged allegiance to inside the sanctuary at my church. Something just doesn’t feel right about that.
It is NEVER–NEVER– all right to sing Tubthumpin in church or anywhere in the vast universe of the united planets. Are we clear?
I’m with Tyler and Jason. I think it really depends on the songs. I don’t think anyone is worshiping the USA; I think people are worshiping God through some of those songs because we are free.
Battle Hymn: “As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free…”
We had a minor uproar in one church when the American flag was taken out of the sanctuary. Tom is right, much of it was generational. The older folks tended to see the removal of the flag as a slam on the soldiers who laid down their lives for our freedom to worship. The younger folks tended to see the American flag as an inappropriate symbol to be used in the worship of God.
We have the Stars and Stripes flying proudly in front of our home. We do not have the flag in our worship area nor do we plan a service around the “God and Country” theme. In our pastoral prayer this weekend we will probably emphasize thanks to God for our country and interecede for her future, but other than that we will keep right on marching through 1 Corinthians verse by verse.
Mother’s Day and Father’s Day are the brainchildren of flower and card stores. And they get plenty of my money each year!
Well spoken, Zoner. Actually it is a good opportunity to preach on the freedoms we enjoy in Christ and then to proclaim how we lay those freedoms aside in deference to our weaker brothers.
I have had to do this in the last week. I am no longer allowed to blog anything of a political nature because what I wrote in one comment in one post offended one man in our ocngregation. I had to delete everything from pro=life posts to articles honoring Dr. King and Rosa PArks.
I will have to settle for commenting on stuff you all write.
*My new webserver makes the old website obselete. My new addres is www.amplyblessed.net. I guess I’ll have to re-apply, Tim to get it changed.
Speaking of which, how does one re-apply to change the info? I need to put my blog back on, but when I click the word “change” it says error on page. Is that my PC’s problem?
www.bobisanut.blogspot.com
J razz, brother, you and I will simply disagree about the importance of music in a worship service. When it comes down to it, I think we are arguing pragmatics. We both want the message of Christ to get to everyone. While a song itself doesn’t carry the ability to save, it is my belief that it brings many closer to the Truth that might otherwise be unaffected.
God most certainly did give us a hymnal of Psalms.
Ex 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
Dt 5:7 “You shall have no other gods before me.
Dt 6:13 Fear the LORD your God, serve him only…
Ge 4:3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD.
Ge 4:4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, Ge 4:5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
Ge 4:6 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? Ge 4:7 If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it.”
We worship GOD alone and not any old way either. Sincerity is not enough.
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
Tom, it sounds like the guy in your congregation needs to be reminded that the Constitution does not protect him from being offended. Toes are only stepped on when they’re where they shouldn’t be.
We think this is a new phenomenon to blur the lines of worshipping God and worshipping symbols. The Israelites were worshipping the Ark of the Covenant long before the American Flag entered the picture. And God allowed the Ark to fall into the hands of the Philistines as a result.
Anyone know how to speak North Korean?
The deacons unanimously defended the offended gentleman.
Tom and Bob: Try deleting your cookies for this site. There’s something wrong with my site and clicking on “Change” doesn’t work. If I knew how to fix it, I would. But if you clear your cookies, it should allow you to fill out your new info.
I’m one thought Chineese Tom, but now its looking to be a mix of French, Spanish and English.
BTW Tim, I can’t change my info either.
I can eat the cookies, bake the cookies, even toss my cookies but delete my cookies is beyond my ability as a hack computer geek.
OK Tyler, if you’ll do the same thing that I suggested to Tom and Bob, that’s the answer. Just because I didn’t include your name in the post, that doesn’t mean it won’t work for you.
Check your email, Tom.
sorry, skimmed past your post Tim. It wasn’t controversal enough for me. I was hoping for some spells or a conspiracy or something.
Good Thinking Tim! Just for that I’ll click some google ads.
Tim,
Preach it, brother from another mother!!!
May your tribe increase, Tyler.
Catch ya tomorrow, my e-mail won’t even work now.
You know I agree with you Tim.
It’s called syncretism.
Tim, I remember reading your post on this last year. I agreed with you then and agree more now. The idea in many of our churches that patriotism equals godliness is a prevalent one. It is also difficult to fight because it was so engrained in the WW II generation. I hope that we can find some kind of happy medium where we express thankfulness to God for our country without saying the Pledge or singing the national anthem in Sunday worship.
Aw, only 51 responses? Seems everyone lost interest after I left yesterday.
Getting it revved up again, check out Purgatorio here.
http://purgatorio1.com/?p=447
And a public acknowledgment for Mr. Ellsworth’s techie help. He fixed me!
I like the Let us not forget one and the no greater love one.
I want to make a bulletin that says Let us not forget then put a picture of the alamo on it!
I think it’s very funny that so many of the people posting here are from the “worship is a lifestyle” crowd and I could hear you talk about it any time the subject is approached. But apparently not here.
If worship is a lifestyle then we worship God through a number of different means. What worship is is when we put God first. I will agree that most patriotic services are not puting God first however i think it can be done. and it can be done well when some effort is applied.
I understand the fact that some of the patriotic songs churchs sing and the pledge of allegance and all that is kinda hoky and i dont like that either. BUT i think there is a difference when it comes to songs that honor God and talk about his provision for us in the past. I think those songs and actions do us good to reflect where the blessing of this nation actually came from!
It’s sad to see so many people just shooting it down without critically thinking about the real issue.
“I think it’s very funny that so many of the people posting here are from the “worship is a lifestyle” crowd and I could hear you talk about it any time the subject is approached. But apparently not here.”
Your point here escapes me, Josh. If you’d like to try to be clearer, feel free. I just don’t know what you’re trying to say.