Is ‘24′ honoring to God?
April 26th, 2006I was talking to a friend of mine this weekend. He’s started watching “24,” which doesn’t entirely please his wife. “How does a show like that bring glory to God?” she asked him.
And so, I throw this out as a topic for discussion. How do we as Christians glorify God by watching a show like “24″? This discussion doesn’t just have to be limited specifically to “24.” What about the movies we watch? What about R-rated movies? What’s acceptable and what’s not?
Let’s see where this takes us. I certainly have my opinion on the matter, and if you read this blog much you probably know what it is. But I’m going to leave it at that for now and see what you have to say.
Tim,
We are typically entertained by what connects with us. Consequently, what we find entertaining says allot about us. We should take the time to evaluate and explore this part of our lives. I’m no saying that everything entertaining is bad, it’s just a gague of where our hearts are at the time. Most entertainement is an extension of our fantasy life. The problem occurs when we want to make the fantasy a reailty.
J
There are approximately five people in America who haven’t gotten hooked on “24,” and I’m one of them. It seems to me that while the show certainly depicts sin, it does so without celebrating and glorifying it. So I don’t think we can say that watching the show is sinful for everyone - though for some weaker brothers, it may be.
The larger issue, it seems to me, is the all-too-common misapplication of what it means to do all things to the glory of God. It DOESN’T mean we never enjoy ourselves, or that we never pursue an activity just because it’s fun. The Christian life shouldn’t resemble a spiritual hampster wheel.
I am also one of the five people in America who is not addicted to 24. In fact, I do not watch the show. Recently, there are three shows I try not to miss: House, Boston Legal, and Doctor Who (the new one on Sci-Fi).
Discuss.
I am assuming, perhaps in error, that most of the folks who visit this blog are regular church attenders. Believing the Bible to be completely authoritative in all matters, we would reasonably conclude that attending worship regularly is pleasing to God as we have committed a portion of our time to Him. The question you pose here is can we watch this program (and those like it) in the balance of our time and in the result honor God.
Not to get too far off point, but would another question perhaps add some clarity to the topic….
After we’ve tithed, can we spend the other 90% any way that we please?
All the people not hooked on 24 all read timellsworth.com–I do not watch it.
True story: We were at our small group bible study and one of the fellows, who speaks with a bit of an accent said that they watched “The 40 year Old Virgin”. he said there was some ‘raw humor’ but it was a good story about this guy who was a good man.
My wife and I started to watch it. And turned it off shortly after. And this comes from someone that is very lenient (read: i compromise) in what I watch.
This is going to be a great thread.
As for what’s acceptable, is some language or violence OK? Do we not read some of the goriest stories in the Bible?
Bro To always seems to cut right to the core of the matter. Great point.
It is possible to take the concept of “all to the glory of God” to an extreme. While I agree, Christians should be careful what they allow in their minds, I do not believe that only “spiritual” things are appropriate.
What about going to a baseball game? While there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with sports, can we truly say that being a spectator at a sporting event brings glory to God? If you start down this road, you’d better be ready to follow it to its logical conclusion.
I believe that entertainment, sports, recreation, etc. in moderation ARE glorying to God. I personally have never watched 24. I do read books, watch shows, and listen to music that would not be considered “spiritual”. Where is the “glory” in them? I believe that art, literature, music, drama, and sports can be beneficial to us as human beings. They develop our mind, spirit, and body, and THAT is a way that we glorify God.
I apologize for being so long. Just wanted to express my thoughts on this.
No apology necessary, Cameron. Your post wasn’t too long at all.
Ever since I began watching 24 its put a new twist on all other movies. I now watch movies and try to picture myself as Jack Bauer and figure out what he would do. If only Jack Bauer were in all movies, we wouldn’t have this conversation. He wouldn’t had worried about being a 40 year old virgin he would have worried about the 40 year old virgin terrorist planning to suicide bomb airforce one. Jack would have interrogated the bad dude in SAW2 and known that the video was taped and known the exact location of the captured people by analysing the previous satalite imagry. Jack has chaned my movie, tv watching experience forever!
I agree with Cameron. As a result of personal study, I’ve come to the conclusion that the intention of “sabbath” or rest has more to do with “getting out of the routine” than it does with a specific period of time or a specific activity (or avoidance of a specific activity).
That said, obviously there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Where’s that line? And who / what decides where the line should be when the issue is not clearly “black or white”?
count me in the group of 5 people who have never seen ‘24.’ I have friends that watch it and love it. I can’t comment specifically on the show because, well I haven’t seen it…
However, instead of thinking about whether we should watch this show or the other, I was thinking about entertainment period… If someone from another planet were to observe us without making his/her presence felt, I think he would observe that we worship at the altar of entertainment…
For most of us, Entertainment seems to be the thing that we pursue more than anything, and if we’re Christians that doesn’t speak too well of our devotion…
At the risk of sounding puritanical, perhaps a bit spurgeonical, I recommend a small experiment… Shut your TV off for a week and see how well you cope with the effects… easy right? since most people have dvr’s nowadays, but don’t use them for the week… purposefully miss your favorite shows (’ncis’ or ‘numb3rs’ in my case) for one week and analyze your dependency on the tube, the results will be alarming, they were for me…
I don’t watch ‘24′ either, for no particular reason. I do watch ‘Idol,’ which is pretty much the definition of vanity.
God has created everything on Earth for our enjoyment; when we enjoy it rightly, acknowledging it as His gift, then we glorify Him. However, as fallen man, we are doomed to corrupt everything. TV is one of these things that God has provided by giving us the capacity to invent and use it. Just as an exercise, read Tim’s question and substitute the words ‘drink alcohol’ where it reads ‘watch ‘24′ ‘ or some similar phrase. God also gave us the capacity to invent alcohol, and it can be used to His glory (communion), although many choose to misuse it.
Our challenge then is to joyfully exercise our liberty while maintaining our responsibility to serve the Spirit and not the flesh. Then confess when we’re convicted of our failures. As for the brother Tim mentions, if he loves his wife as Christ loves the Church, he probably should make allowance for the weaker vessel and forego the TV show if it makes her stumble.
I think we should draw the line when whatever we are watching, listening to or reading starts to interfere with our fellowship with God. This interference can be in the nature of the amount of time we spend on it, or how it affects our thought life. Perhaps these are some of the “weights” referred to in Hebrews 12:1?
I agree, Gordon, but there’s a distinction between refraining from something because it (even a good thing) has become a hindrance, and saying a book, program, or activity is bad simply because it is not overtly “spiritual”. Or as was stated “brings glory to God”.
My point is that while there are some things that clearly bring glory (prayer, worship, etc.), there are also activities that are more nuanced in their “glorifying”. This great distinction between secular and spiritual is often an artificial one.
Eating breakfast can not be said to specifically glorify God, yet Paul said “Whether you EAT or DRINK…do all to the glory of God.” Many things we do are “neutral”. Yet by our heart attitude and purpose in them, we can “sanctify” them for the glory of God.
Still, when it comes to hobbies, sports, and entertainment, let every man be convinced in his own mind.
Great topic, Tim
As for me, “24″ redefines the absolute good vs. evil thing. The “good” is sometimes bad (shooting Henderson’s wife to get him to talk) and the bad can arguably have originally had good intentions but applied their patriotism the wrong way. This show isn’t that black and white and life isn’t always, either.
Does the end justify the means? Bauer would say “yes.” When your wife comes out and asks “How do I look in this?” and she doesn’t look that great and you are already running 20 minutes late for a social gathering, do you say “Fine, honey, let’s go” or, “Maybe you should try the sleek lace top instead of the polka-dot blouse.”
My point is, do we subconsciously adopt the worldview of the program or can we dichotomize without being compromised?
Great discussion. Surely it is not wrong to watch and participate in “secular” or “non-Christian” television, movies, music, etc. But we all know that sometimes artists cross a line that we are not willing to cross, even for the sake of the pleasure of entertainment. I worry that too often, Christians don’t turn the TV off or stop the movie. I appluad Zoner and his wife for living with conviction. I guess the reality is that we all draw those lines in different places. To me, Seinfeld is an example of a show that most of the time I really liked, but occasionally had to turn off.
I agree with Craig. In this case, the husband should probably not watch the show or convince her to have a night with the gals each week when it’s on.
I am one of those hooked on 24, and my question is, does everything you do have to glorify God? Where does that line stop? Seems like a boring life to avoid entertainment for the sake of not seeing Jack Bauer pass by a church on his way to blow up a terrorist hideout.
Then again, I’m not a churchgoer anymore and pretty much a pagan, so I can’t say that I’m entirely the one to answer the question. Movies like “40-year-old Virgin” don’t bother me one bit and are a hoot.
I am so glad we are talking about this. I think Ephesians 5:3 has alot to say about this. “But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among the saints.” I recently have really decided to stick to my guns on this verse when it comes to entertainment. I have had to give up watching so many of my favorite movies because they contain scenes that do more than merely “name” the immorality. Among them include: Ace Ventura 1 and 2, Dumb and Dumber, Tommy Boy, and Cable Guy. The most difficult sacrifice I have had to make was Star Trek First Contact (yeah I’m a nerd) and even worse ABC’s “Lost.” Up until three weeks ago I had watched every single episode. I decided to eliminate Lost because a couple of the characters have engaged in premarital sex. But thank God Lord of the Rings wasn’t on that list!!
This is a very difficult decision to make. Fellow Christians look at me like I am legalistic, but those same people have nothing to say when I quote Ephesians 5:3. It’s kind of annoying actually. Eliminating all this immoral entertainment has really increased my sensitivity to certain jokes. I try and understand, but it’s really annoying the way I am treated sometimes for my conviction about this stuff. I have two other Christian friends that are taking the same stand in this and that has been a great help, but it stinks that I am sometimes persecuted by my own brethren.
I just want to see Jack get saved. Then he could kick butt in the name of Jesus AND bring glory to God.
(Wow, was that out of bounds or what?)
“…does everything you do have to glorify God? Where does that line stop?”
Good question Jeff. I think that we often look at issues like this from just one perspective. We think about how the culture is influencing us. But some events like sports can benefit from us influencing them. Tim points thiout with many of his articles. Christians have allot to offer the world. We should be salt and light. Instead of just watching what we are entertained by, we need to see where we can infuse meaning, purpose, and holiness as we point the world to reconciliation with God. One of our primay jobs as Christians is to point out where God is at work in people’s lives. Perhaps we ne to examine how we can use cultural phenomenons like 24 to point the world to Chirst. We can shrink back and try to isolate ourselves from the culture or we can get out of the salt shaker and try to liven up the public debate.
“does everything you do have to glorify God?”
I think that I Cor. 10:31 pretty much gives us that answer, along with Romans 12:1. We are to do ALL to the glory of God. If we are believers then our expected spiritual worship to a holy God is to give him our life in total as a living sacrifice. Yes, we aught to enjoy life (and I believe that a show like 24 can be a part of that — I watch it regularly), but in all our enjoyment we should glorify our God, wether it is a show we watch, a sport we play, a book we read, music we listen to, etc. As we participate in each of these things, God is either held high or brought low, and that’s the bottom line for me.
Wow. A whole lot of talk and asking questions, but very few people taking a stand on your question, Tim.
How about we issue a challenge that everyone must answer either “Yes”, “No” or “Not sure”?
Put me solidly in the “Not sure” camp since I’ve not seen enough or 24 to really know. I did read on ESPN.com that Kobe Bryant is changing his number from 8 to 24, so how does that impact this conversation?
i personally wouldn’t about 24 personally. I haven’t watched it. But even if one episode had sexual immorality in it I would have to turn it off and not watch it. What do you guys think about that?
I think that’s taking things to the extreme, Josh. The Bible has sexual immorality in it. If you’re going to say that all depictions of sexual immorality are to be completely avoided, then it follows that we shouldn’t read the Bible.
Good point. How do interopret Ephesians 5:3? What is Paul saying? Maybe give a little support for your answer. I really respect your opinion.
Josh,
I think Paul is saying that we’re not to participate in such sinful behaviors as fornication, uncleanness, covetousness, etc. Now, while watching a TV show or movie where fornication is depicted, does that mean it’s possible for us to participate in that sinful behavior? Yes, I’d say it’s certainly possible to do so, especially if the depiction is rather graphic.
But does it mean that seeing a depiction of fornication, or uncleanness, or covetousness, etc., necessarily means we are participating in it ourselves? No, it doesn’t. Just seeing sinful behavior, or reading about sinful behavior, doesn’t have to mean we are participating in it. If I’m a witness to a murder, does that mean I have participated in that sin because I’ve seen it? Of course not.
Brett thank you for your words but we do not deserve any applause. Like I said, I know I compromise in what I watch in both film and TV. If there is an area in my walk where I don’t always honor God, that is it. Not that it matters, but I work in television, have always loved television, have always loved film and have worked on all kinds of programs. I’m watching certain shows for more than just content.
But if anything is just gratuitous then I would turn it off.
I applaud Josh.
Also, have you noticed while watching films that they don’t even need to use half of the bad language they do? I always say to my wife–does that add anything to the film/show? They could actually increase viewership by cleaning things up but I guess they don’t realize that.
Tim,
I would agree with you that Paul doesn’t want us to partcipate in sin, but is that what Ephesians is saying? He goes on to say that “filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather of giving thanks.” Ephesians 5:4 You have an excellent point to make about the Bible, but when the Bible mentions sexual immorality, it is always (correct me if I am wrong about ‘always’) coming against it and maybe this is the only way we can mention immorality is when we are coming against it and condemning it. To me that reconciles the apparent conflict between Eph 5:3 and the rest of the Bible. However, to me, that still creates a prohibition against watching TV shows and movies which contain sexually immoral situations. I realize that I am probably out of my league in taking up in a debate but you’re on!!
What about a persons consience? I know while watching something wheather I should be or not. As christians isn’t that a good guide? I think 24 glorifies God.
What’s “24″?
Josh,
Yes, as I said in my previous post, I think that’s what Paul is saying in Ephesians — that we as Christians are not to participate in these types of behaviors. I think we need to recognize sinful behavior for what it is when we see it, but I don’t think that means it’s sinful to watch a TV show just because it depicts sexual immorality.
Again, I think that it’s POSSIBLE that we could be sinning in watching such shows, especially if these shows are leading us to have impure thoughts. I just don’t think you can say with all certainty that it is always sinful.
What about a TV show that is free from any sexual immorality but that depicts a robbery? Stealing’s a sin. Is that sinful to watch as well?
Let’s take your reasoning to its conclusion. By your standards, you could never purchase anything without sinning, because there’s obviously some unethical and sinful business dealings that have taken place in that company. You could never read a biography of someone who has engaged in immoral behavior at some point.
When my son throws a temper tantrum, should I not have anything to do with him because he’s sinning? Can I not go to a baseball game because there will be people there who are drunk?
I agree with you that we all should take a hard look at what kind of shows we watch and determine whether we should be doing so. And I appreciate your desire for holiness. But if you’ll give this some more thought, I think you’ll see that completely removing yourself from any circumstances where there might be sin taking place is unrealistic, and not what God expects from us.
Unfortunately, I don’t need a TV show to have sinful thoughts. And neither do you! You might as well admit it. But our relationship with God is no longer measured by our works, but by the work of Christ on the cross.
Tim,
I didn’t mean to say that I would remove myself from any situation where there might be sin. I don’t think that’s what Ephesians is saying either. I think what Ephesians is saying that a Christian should not mention acts of sexual immorality (greed and impurity as well) in any other way unless it is implied that they condemn it. I have a few Christian friends who go against this. To be honest; it’s difficult for me to resist it too. It’s probably because I have watched so many movies and TV shows that desensitize me to the offensiveness of sin. (It seems like there might be a subtle strategy there.) What is so funny about sex? Very SNLish. I used to watch SNL and for one they were alot funnier in the past than they are now. The humor in SNL now relies so heavily on sexual humor that is just so cheap an downright immature. Maybe that’s what Ephesians is talking about. Maybe human beings tend to think sex for some reason is funny and maybe that’s the way it was back then and maybe that’s why Paul wrote Ephesians. Ephesians seems so extreme; it’s like it is saying “Don’t even talk about it!” Is it hyperbole? You have also reminded me that this passage isn’t just talking about sexual immorality, but also greed and impurity (What does this word mean in this context? Any suggestions?) I also think it’s important to consider the phrase “among you” and “among the saints.” I think Paul is strictly talking about the church and we aren’t responsible for other people’s choices. But aren’t we personlly making a decision to allow sexual immorality into our midst when we turn on shows that we can be fairly certain are going to contain it? Friends is a great example of this. I have yet to come across a Friends episode that doesn’t rely on sexually immorality in the plot. I want to make sure that I reiterate that I don’t watch 24; I simply never got into it so I don’t know what’s in it. But if this Jack guy sleeps around, I don’t think it’s right for Christians to watch the show. I know that is very extreme compared to what many Christians consider appropriate entertainment. Where do we draw the line? If we make it about personal conviction then we will never be able to take a stand against improper entertainment. Not watching movies like American Pie and shows like Desperate Housewives will be a matter of personal conviction and there will be no universal standard, which I think in this situation, is necessary. Try not to write me off as someone who hasn’t thought about this. It was very difficult to say goodbye to “Lost.” How do we know that we are not making this passage say something other than what it is saying just because it conflicts with our agendas? By the way, I know my posts are usually pretty long. I am just trying to be clear.
Craig —
Are your comments directed to me or Josh?
Craig,
I don’t think that gives us an excuse to live without standards. And I didn’t mean to say that my decision was a road to salvation. By the way The Book of James is pretty clear about the relationship of works to our relationship to God. Works are very important. It’s a quick read; give it a shot.
Jack Bauer is too busy killing terrorists to sleep around.
Also, Josh, just a suggestion — there’s no problem with long posts, but they’re much easier to read if you break them into paragraphs.
Good thinking
I will try that.
Now I am just being obnoxious.
That was a universal “you.” And I don’t mean it as a cop-out or an excuse. It’s simply true. Check out Mt. 5. If I, as a normal man, were stranded on a desert island, I would dream up a woman to lust after. It is the sin nature that lives in the flesh. Check out Rom. 7. And I’m well acquainted with James.
I think the real solution is serious discipleship - devotion to study, prayer and meditation. The more I have immersed myself in these things, the less I’ve cared about what the world has to offer. But I recognize I will never be delivered from this body of death until this body is indeed dead.
I do admit that I don’t need a TV to sin, but you can’t ignore the TVs influence on the perpetual degradation of our societal standards since its invention. I am not saying that television is evil; I am saying that many TV shows contain evil in the form of sexual immorality in their plotlines and when they do they make it look all nice and pretty. As Christians do we really think we are above being influenced by such material?
And Matthew 5 doesn’t say anything about a desert island, it talks about commiting adultery in your heart by merely looking at a woman with lust. It says nothing about fantasy. The human mind needs material to work with it can’t just dream up a woman. If you have images in your mind of women, it’s because you have seen those women before. I think that television has the potential to overwhelm our human minds with that material.
I don’t mean to downplay the importance of disciplines like study, prayer, and meditation, but if if we do those things and in next minute watch a show with sexual immorality, we shouldn’t call it entertainment. In fact, we should hate it. The Bible says that we are to “ahor what is evil and cling to what is good.” Romans 12:9 How much entertainment can we possibly from something that we hate?