Osteen’s wife delays flight
December 21st, 2005Victoria Osteen, the wife of Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen, apparently caused a scene and delayed a flight to Colorado yesterday.
“She was just abusive,” said Sheila Steele, who said she was sitting behind Victoria Osteen. “She was just like one of those divas.”
A church spokesman said the couple and their children left the plane voluntarily after the incident Monday and took another flight to Vail, Colo.
However, FBI Special Agent Luz Garcia said the Osteens were asked to leave the jetliner after an “altercation.” She said Victoria Osteen “failed to comply” with instructions from the flight attendant. She added that no one was detained.
The incident delayed the flight for two hours, and passengers weren’t happy. I don’t blame them.
Ahh. Nothing like another budding televangelist! I love it when people like this go and paint a picture to the rest of the world as to what we “Christians” are really like. Just gives them more ammunition.
I think the only news here is that the Osteen family was relegated to first class on Continental instead of a private jet. Don’t they have the favor of God?
I guess none of the people on the plane, including Mrs. Osteen, were enjoying their “best life now.”
She wanted her “best flight… now!”
I guess the Osteens are going to Vail for the Holidays. Must be nice. I hope I never run into Victoria in the lift lines at the ski areas.
Victoria is human. Just like all of us. She just happens to live in a glass house and when she messes up “royally” the whole country gets to point a finger at her.
She lost it. She shouldn’t have.
She is young, went to the top fast and “her roots” haven’t had much time to go deep to keep her grounded for those “messy” situations.
I’m sure she’ll learn the grandest of lessons from this. Too bad she didn’t get to learn it when she was yet an unknown!
Victoria & Joel are both around 40 years of age. Youth and inexperience cannot be used as reasons. Being human, yes.
Not to mention, what does this teach their kids?
Peter R. has a good point. A commercial airline? Hmmmm…
indeed, where was the favor of God that day, in the same box
where most people keep Him during the week, then let Him out
on Sundays……?
Hey! How did you know I was around 40?
people, people… why the judging? first and foremost, we don’t know exactly what happened… second, there’s the testimony of one person and her story was not corroborated according to the report… third, why do we hold pastors on tv to a different standard? why, none of guys have lost it? i know i have and im not proud of when i have but it happens, we’re not perfect… having said all that, i dont see eye to eye with the “power of positive thinking” gospel that joel preaches but it’s no reason to act like the very hypocrites we seem to be making of them…
And Laz gets the award for being the first person to throw out the “judging” charge. I knew it was coming sooner or later.
People like the Osteens who hold themsleves out as examples of God’s having poured out his blessings on those who are most in touch with Him bring condemnation on themselves when they act like this. The hypocrisy is theirs, not those who point it out.
II Peter 2:2-3
where can i pick up my award? all i am saying is that if the person who blew up would have been john macarthur/john piper/rob bell/fillin the blank, the outrage would not have been as bad… it’s just natural to point fingers when someone we don’t like screws up but to be more forgiving and apologetic when it’s someone we like…
btw, we still dont know exactly what happened… again it’s one woman’s testimony…
I’m seeing the testimony of more than just one woman. An FBI agent also confirmed that the Osteens were asked to leave the plane after an altercation.
I understand what you’re saying, but there’s no “judging” going on. Pointing out wrongdoing isn’t judging. Either she acted this way or she didn’t, and it seems pretty clear to me that she did. There’s nothing left to judge.
yes, they were asked to leave the plane after an altercation, the FBI agent does not go into the details of the altercation… i.e. she doesn’t mention anything about v. osteen charging the cockpit like the other woman claims…
pointing out wrongdoing… i think the question arises, on what the usefulness of this is, especially when it’s someone we don’t know personally…
I guess the Bible never does that, huh?
Maybe so it will be a lesson to all of us? Sounds like a good enough reason to me.
well yes the Bible does it, isnt that enough? and it should be a lesson to all of us… i know all too well… the day im wearing a shirt that reads “Love wins” I’m rolling down my window and yelling furiously at a particularly slow driver… With an ICHTUS stuck to the back of the car no less… in a world without grace yes, I understand i messed up and there are consequences… but does the Atonement encourage us to point out the wrongdoings of others w/o the intent to rehabilitate them? if you personally know joel and victoria osteen then this doesnt apply to you…
I’m sorry but your point isn’t clear.
my point is this: because it’s victoria osteen that screwed up and not someone that most evangelicals happen to like, then the response is different… it’s ‘pointing out wrongdoing’ when it’s someone we didnt’ like to begin with…
I disagree. If a story about John Piper’s wife doing the same thing had been on the wires, I’d have blogged about it in the same way.
SHUT DOWN THE MEDIA! We can no longer report what happens in the world, nor can we comment on anything, lest we be accused of ‘judging’ someone?! Discussion on blogs, etc. about things that happen in the world is not judging. That is the most misused accusation ever.
We live in a world where nearly everyone is on a stage, some are on a bigger stage with stilts on it that allow everyone to see, even the short kids in back. I am not judging the Osteens nor am I judging Laz. I am making a point by using muchos sarcasm. By the way, when sports people celebrate excessively, they are being idiots.
That’s right! I should have the right to blog on about how Tim;s wife screamed at a lady in the WalMart parking lot earlier this week and had to be restrained by a security guard, all I want. Right Tim?
just kidding!
Uh-oh, this blog is getting too personal for me….
Since Victoria and her husband have a very large forum to do good…positively…winning people to Jesus….so her wisdom and maturity must run even larger. Had she had the presence of mind to realize that her short tempered action would cause such a fiasco and so much uproar…perhaps she would have kept her mouth shut, wiped up the spill, and smiled.
Her “losing it” most importantly can hurt her credibility for the message she preaches.
Any minister that is hurt due to his/her failure hurts us all. Whether we agree with them doctrinally or not.
Galatians 6:1, “Brothers, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such a one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.”
I am a pastor’s wife and I have tried to imagine if I had done something of this nature and how absolutly horrible it would be for my actions to give opportunity for dirt to be thrown at the message I preach (I’d deserve dirt to be thrown at me)…but for it to give people opportunity to mock Jesus….for that reason alone we must all “possess our vessels unto honor”.
The spiritual thing to do would be to pray for them to have wisdom so that they would now handle this in a way that the offense they caused everyone on the plane to be forgiven.
This is NO EXCUSE, just wondering if you’ve read any books on HIllary Clinton? How she acted in the White House….lots of even worse stories there.
Point is….leaders should be and need to be held to a high standard. When they fall short it is a big deal. You gotta know that going in…..that is the wisdom that slipped Victoria’s mind that day…that hopefully will be branded there for life. I have a feeling it will.
Jeremy Jones, please do not judge on this site any further. It won’t be tolerated.
And Tim, there is no judging in the Bible. God is all about love. You should know that by now.
Some additional interesting info cited on another blog. Apparently this kind of thing is standard operating procedure for the Osteens due to the ‘favor of God’ in their lives.
http://theologica.blogspot.com/2005/12/osteens-and-airlines.html
Jim, please don’t judge me about judging others. But, please-please don’t judge Tim on what he knows. It’s not for you or me to have opinions about someone.
Oh, for more DISCERNMENT in the Christian life today.
Big difference.
Merry Christmas.
Seems that (all) people here pointing the finger on Victoria.
What is not clear is really what happened.
Being traveling much, I could confirm that there are really very rude flight attendance out there as well.
As the facts stand now, it seems as though Mrs. Osteen was creating a ruckus and a confrantation with flight personnel and the authorities ensued. There is nothing wrong or sinful about discussing these events.
Being going out to eat much, I could confirm there are rude people in restaurants, as well. But this may not have anything to do with the story.
The Osteens will come out ahead for sure! Someone will give them a private jet so that “minor incidents” like this will never get to the media again.
For some of you who are not members of Lakewood Church, let me assure you that Victoria and Joel both confess their faults to the congregation almost on a weekly basis, therein letting you know they are human and not perfect and not people that should be “worshipped as Gods”.
Victoria has acknowledged that she regrets the incident and wishes it had not happened. As anyone would be if they had been in that situation, I can only imagine how embarassed she feels by it now.
Many people “have heard of Joel and Victoria” but have never actually “listened” to their message.
I don’t know of any other pastors that confess their sins to their congregation and their TV audience like Joel and Victoria and the other pastors at Lakewood do, probably for fear of what would be said of them by even their own congregation and the public.
As Jesus said “Only God is good”. Millions and millions of people run the race thinking that going further than the other runners will get them to heaven. YOU HAVE TO BE PERFECT TO ENTER HEAVEN. Since no one is perfect, no one is worthy of entering heaven, no matter how much good you have done in your life. Salvation is a “gift” of God.
A Christian is not one who is better than a non-Christian. A Christian is simply one who has accepted the gift of salvation from God and is a friend of God, and has turned their life over to God so that God can do a work in them in order to change them. But we are still very much imperfect.
Consider that Adam & Eve had committed only one sin and God kicked them out of the Garden of Eden. God is perfect and must keep himself pure for our sake; He is our only hope.
Whether you have committed 20,000 or 1,000,000 mistakes or sins in your life, if you acknowledge your failure to God and ask for the gift of salvation, God is faithful to forgive us and accept the perfect sacrifice that was His Son in place of the sins that we have accrued. It is the ONLY WAY to salvation.
God’s perfect Son (Jesus was sinless just like the Father) took our sins and paid for them on the cross and God the Father lifted him up in resurrection and granted Him eternal life as He will grant us if we accept the truth.
That is the message of Christianity, not that you must be better than non-Christians or that we must be perfect, because we’re not. Only God is good and only God is perfect. Only after you accept His gift can the Holy Spirit begin a work in us to make us a better person than we were before, albeit it will be a slow process to change us. God “teaches” us through trials and tribulations and through blessings as any earthly and loving parent teaches their children. Don’t expect a complete change overnight.
God adopts us into His family and blesses His children according to His riches, which are never ending. The Osteens have received this blessing and so have millions upon millions, despite the fact that we are still not perfect and will not be perfect until the day we reach Heaven. Don’t you love and bless your children, despite the fact that they are not perfect? As long as they acknowledge you, you are there for them.
I do not judge the Osteens, for my list of sins is probably 100 times worse than theirs, yet I know God and He knows me and loves me and blesses me and anyone else who calls Him friend.
I AM A CHRISTIAN, because I KNOW God and He is my friend and I have turned my life over to Him and He is doing a work in me to change me. THAT is what it means to be a Christian, not what the world has defined as a Christian.
I truly appreciate Isaac’s refresher on the ABCs of how to become a Christian, but nobody posting on Tim’s blog has said she is going to hell! Nobody has said she is going to Heaven. If I said she is condemned to hell, that would be judging. We are simply commenting on the events of what happened. I am sure she is sorry for what happened. Once again, the judging accusation is one of the most misquoted scriptures.
The basic topic of this blog seems less about “judging,” than what the standards are for leadership. Let me first begin by saying that I haven’t read any of Joel Olstein’s books, but what I have heard about his teaching is that he sugarcoats and waters down the message of the Bible. That being said, I really don’t know if that is the case ecause I haven’t read any of his books. I probably should. The standarss of overseers are definitely higher for those in leadership. If his wife is unrepentent, then something needs to be done. Yet, it is not up to me at this point to decide if she is repentent. Time, if that, may tell the story. If I do decide and to prematurely say that she is unrepentent, then it is my opinion that I am overstepping the line of what may be called “judgment.” I agree with those who say that “Judge not lest ye be judged” is probably one of most misquoted verses in the Bible. Yet, I do think that some of us may be stepping over that line, but I can’t say that for sure. I think that some of our attitudes are definitely inappropriate regarding this issue. As high in leadership as this person is, and as high as the expected standards by which she is expected to uphold, and as far as she has fallen from meeting these standards, it is not our job to kick somebody when they are down. I must confess my own practice of doing this. What is it about human beings that make us want to thrive on scandal?
I do remember Jesus being critized by the religious people of his day for letting a woman use EXPENSIVE perfume on him, healing on the sabbath day, eating with tax collectors and sinners, and MORE……and Jesus clothing was so nice that it was gambled for at the cross……not given to Goodwill.
Victoria’s behavior has nothing to do with them flying first class, how much money they make, and the like. You all sound like sour grapes to me!
One has nothing to do with the other. People in coach can be just as rude as people in first class.
Joel could have killed his fathers church. I’ve seen it happen! But he didn’t. He grew it 4 times bigger in 8 years. I think that deserves more the 25K a year!
People say that they have come to know Jesus and love Jesus more from being at Lakewood.
As far as $$…people are free to leave any church any time they want. They also freely give offerings. They are not foced to give. You don’t, so quit complaining about us who give to our churches (I don’t live in Houston). I’m sure that is the case at Lakewood as well.
A church of 20,000 has a lot more resposibility to carry than one of 100. The Bible says that the labororer is worthy of his hire. I’m not talking about abuse here with money….but to hear most people talk they’d want a pastor’s family to live in poverty…I suppose that would prove in their minds how spiritual they were.
Neither having money nor the lack of money has anything to do whatsoever with a person’s spirituality, honesty, or character.
What if the trip was a gift? What if they were flying for free? Nobody really knows. Proverbs says that a fool answers before he knows the whole story.
The issue is Victoria’s outburst. Period. How they spend their money is their business. Not ours. If they have done something wrong with their money then their yearly indepenent audit of their church (which they have to have legally..because of the money they have in their new building) will show any improprieties. And if they are squeekly clean..?
If you profess being a Christian then they are our brother and sister and we should pray for them.
Hey Tim, in order to be a Christian, you must cease and desist from ever posting news events that involve other Christians. Only post about unbelievers so that nobody will accuse you of kicking Christians when they are down. Merry Christmas. I only spent 45 seconds writing this.
sigh…
http://www.discernment.org/osteen.htm
This will probably clear some things up.
In Joel’s defense, he did apologize after the King interview for his lack of conviction when presenting the gospel and for sounding like such an inclusivist. That’s not to say I agree with Osteen on much, because I don’t — but I think it’s something that needs to be pointed out when looking at that interview in particular.
But still Tim, when I read that transcript, it shocked me to be honest. How could this man, a “great evangelist” or whatever you want to say, make these kind of comments and mistakes?
When he conducted this interview, like all interviews, he was unprepared in his remarks. However, when he is speaking in front of thousands, his remarks are prepared, therefore in more of a Christian view in my opinion. When he is unprepared, he showed me a completley different side, one that is more vulnerable and not very knowledgable. In other words, the true viewpoints he holds. That’s just how it came off to me.
This guy just keeps making himself more and more suspicious in my eyes.
I’m not defending the guy completely, Scott, as I clearly said that I don’t agree with him on much. I just pointed out that in this interview particularly, he apologized for not representing the gospel as clearly as he could have. It’s unfair to him to look at that interview without pointing that out.
And for the record, I don’t consider Osteen to be a “great evangelist.” I consider him to be someone who gives many people a false sense of security in a faith that isn’t real.
Oh, I wasn’t trying to say that you consider him a “great evangelist.” “You” was meant in a “other people” term. I also wasn’t trying to suggest that you either like him or defend Osteen. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Anyway, I agree, it is good that he apologized for that. However, it still doesn’t erase in my eyes what he did.
I like the study of psychology. I believe that when put in a vulnerable, unguarded state and not given much time to think about a response (i.e. a purposely misleading response), the human mind inadvertantly gives a comment or answer that shows the person’s true beliefs. Now, I’m not trying to say that Osteen is the antichrist or anything, don’t get me wrong. But, he has a cool and slick demeanor when he is prepared. Then, when put in a fast paced, uncomfortable situation, he shows behavior that suggests he is, well, trying to cover something up.
Again, I’m not trying to condemn this guy for something he may or may not be guilty of. I’ve never met him before, nor am I God. I don’t know what he is all about on the inside. However, I can choose not to trust him with helping guide my heart, mind, and soul.
In other words, I just don’t like him, and for what reason I am not sure.
it’s sad to me that i read this kind of things/comments from people who call themselves Christians, i very recently read Osteen’s book, and to be honest i see nothing wrong with his teachings, now to coment on Victoria’s incident, either false or true >only God can judge what happened, and she is a human they preach true, but they never said they were God, nor perfect. God Bless you all.
it’s sad to me that i read this kind of things/comments from people who call themselves Christians, i very recently read Osteen’s book, and to be honest i see nothing wrong with his teachings, now to coment on Victoria’s incident, either false or true >only God can judge what happened, and she is a human they preach true, but they never said they were God, nor perfect. God Bless you all. how funny, it won’t let me post it like that. boo for the devil.
oh good, it was posted. on more thing….what is wrong with teaching to be positive in life people?
Nothing wrong with teachings that don’t mention sin? Nothing wrong with being wishy-washy about the exclusivity of the gospel? Hmm. That’s interesting.
Eva, there is absolutely NO WAY that you can read the New Testament to the point that you are very familiar with it AND at the same time read Joel Osteen’s book and then conclude: “i see nothing wrong with his teachings.”
Follow my logic: either people are saying negative things about Joel Osteen’s teachings because:
(a) they are jealous of Joel for his “success”
(b) they are evil and want to hurt the cause of Christ
(c) they truly find his teachings and the teachings of the New Testament incompatible
(d) they are ignorant idiots who just love to spout off whenever they get the chance
Having known Tim well for almost 20 years now, I know that a,b, and d are definitely not the case.
In answer to your question, “what is wrong with teaching to be positive in life people?”
Answer because at least twice (once in the OT and once in the new) in the Bible when God was telling his spokesmen what they were to be saying to the people. 2/3rds of what they told them to say was negative. Only when sin is called sin, in all its ugliness (which everyone without exception needs to hear) then, and only then, are hearts really ready to receive the positive, good news.
From the OT, Jeremiah 1:9-10
9 Then the Lord put out his hand and touched my mouth. And the Lord said to me.
“ Behold, I have put smy words in your mouth.
10 See, I have set you this day kover nations and over kingdoms,
t to pluck up and to break down,
to destroy and to overthrow,
to build and to plant.”
4 of 6 things he will be saying is negative.
From the NT, 2 Timothy 4:2-4
2 Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. 3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
2/3rds of what Timothy was told to say is negative (reprove and rebuke).
Do you think maybe, just maybe, Joel is attracting such large crowds because he is neglecting 2/3rds of the message God wants him to give?
God has put men of God in your city/town that are willing to lead smaller churches but refuse to back away from telling the truth. Remember that Jeremiah was not a popular preacher in his day and very few people followed him, but Jesus praised his ministry and the other popular prophets of Jeremiah’s day are long forgotten.
Please go with the Bible and not just what is popular or what your ears want to hear. I truly wish you the best.
I think this topic wins the prize for the longest time period between posts…