Sexually suggestive sermons leave some hot and bothered
February 26th, 2007A Lutheran pastor in suburban Detroit looking for creative ways to discuss sex with his congregants has some people hot and bothered with his most recent tactic.
Epic Church Pastor Tim Kade, 40, kicked off the first Sunday in Lent with a sermon entitled, “The Greatest Sex You’ll Ever Have.”
He plans to focus on sex — topics such as frustrations couples face in their relationships and how to talk to kids about sex — every Sunday through April 1 at his Rochester Hills, Mich., church. Some sermon titles include: “The Bedroom: Battleground or Playground” and “Porn: What’s the Big Deal?”
Some are upset with what they consider to be the provocative nature of the content, including the “sexual permissiveness” of the church’s promotional material for the sermon series.
What do you think? Is this appropriate for a church or not?
Unless pictures of bare feet get you all bothered, I’m not seeing the problem with the advertising.
Let’s be honest here. Sexual morality is THE dominant cultural issue of our time. The church ought to be articulating a positive, Christ-centered vision of sexuality, and that’s going to involve having some adult-themed conversations from time to time. The Bible certainly isn’t shy about talking about sex, frequently at a level of detail that would make many people blush. It’s impossible to evaluate what this particular church is doing without hearing the sermon content, but the list of topics look like a home run (if you know what I mean) to me.
I agree with Peter. One reason sexual immorality is so rampant in our culture is because of the silence of the church. I know that we preach against immorality, but we don’t say much about what couples should do, we seem to assume that they will naturally know.
Having said that, I think if this series is going to be as detailed as the information implies, it would probably be better to teach it in a married couples class rather than preaching it on Sunday morning.
Asking provocative questions doesn’t necessarily mean the answer is as provocative. There could be a theologically and scripturally sound message preached in response to the “Porn: What’s the big deal?” question…
However, given this quote of “The church’s Web site also states that a goal of the church is to no longer include “long boring sermons filled with terminology you don’t understand, [but] just messages that relate to real issues in your life!””, it makes one wonder what the content will actually be.
It’s one thing to discuss God’s place for sex in a marriage, how to relate, strengthening a marriage, etc - it’s quite another to discuss techniques.
Certainly, this pastor has generated interest in his series. Maybe the means by which he is doing it is offensive or questionable to some. Hopefully, he’ll present a modest, accurate, God-honoring message. THEN, let’s see if there’s something to be “hot and bothered” about…
Oh no. Not sex. In church?!
Church people don’t have sex or sexual problems. Everyone knows church people’s babies are delivered by storks.
I love how bothered church people get at the word sex.
What will this mean for younger children at the church? My young boys read and they do not need to encounter this yet.
Of course we must speak to the issues of the day, but constraint and not flaunting is what we want to teach. I think this is symptomatic of the church trying to be provocative to garner attention.
There is a fine line between speaking to current issues of the day and outright pandering. It seems like much of the current message of the curch is something like “look at us,we do it too.” Don’t we have anything deeper, more wholistic to say about the subject? By divorcing sex from the realm of gender and human relationships, I fear we are falling into the same trap that the world is stuck in.
Steven said :”I love how bothered church people get at the word sex.”
Sorry to disappoint you, but it doesn’t bother me a bit. However, you might want to reconsider whether that’s the best attitude to have toward brothers and sisters who are reluctant to publicly discuss the issues involved with sexual activity. Do you really enjoy causing embarrasment among innocent people?
Ray, I agree. The church can do its job of telling the truth and edifying without being either dismissive (avoiding the subject) or provocative.
You’re right. Let’s not discuss it at all at church. We’ll just leave it up to the schools or their friends at school.
I still stick to the opinion that two of the biggest taboo subjects within the church are two of the boggest problems of the congregation…
Sexual addictions and alchoholism.
Steven, where did Bill suggest that we “not discuss it at all at church”? If you want to disagree and debate, that’s fine, but let’s not totally and deliberately misrepresent what he said.
It is times like this when I remind myself of something I posted on my blog from another website…
“The foundational problem with modern american christianity is that we talk to people instead of God and we seek conformation instead of transformation.
We think that God has a checklist of an ideal christian (political views, clothing choices, drinking habits, music preferences etc.) and that we need to fit into that mold. Once we’ve taken our number, traded in our uniqueness and gotten in line, we actively condemn and criticize those who don’t adapt.
This is as much true of those who call themselves part of the “Emerging” church as it is true of those who call themselves part of the traditional church.
I don’t think God has a formula. I don’t think there are as many absolute right and wrongs as we like to pretend there are. There are guidelines that are safe and that protect the immature, but I think that as we mature those guidelines can change.
I don’t let my daughters cross the street alone. it’s not safe for them. But I can cross the street alone - because I’m mature and I know how to be safe.
It’s not the church’s job to mandate behavior. It’s the church’s job to teach people how to seek God.
If we spent as much time correcting ourselves as we do others, the church would be infinitely more effective.”
If you like this, then you’ll love the story about mycrappysexlife.com
Ray, I remember a while back when my church did a few sermons focusing on sex, there was concern with the children. But, after some thought, the pastors decided it best to allow the parents to decide whether or not they wanted their children to hear the sermon, based on maturity more than age. For the kids who needed to be out of the room, a good lesson for them was set up in a different room where they could have a “sermon” appropriate for their level.
One wonders how the sub-set of humans known as Christians managed to reproduce itself for all those thousands of years that the church was not having sermon series on how to have sex.
It seems to me if the Word is preached each Sunday, including those parts on how to relate to our spouses in a Biblical way the sex part will take care of itself. We’ve certainly erred over the last 50-100 years by making Christianity a moral code that is to be followed rather than emphasizing the cross and the grace of God for all of living.
However, the answer to that is not MORE instruction on how to live, just from a DO perspective rather than a DON’T perspective, it is the exegetical preaching of the word Sunday in and Sunday out and the preaching of the Gospel of Grace for all of living, including how we relate to our spouses in all areas.
This is just another pragmatic stunt to try to entice people to Church because we’ve grown impatient with simply preaching the Word and letting the Holy Spirit do His job.
I’m with you on this Ray - I’d be surprised if the glory of God is the motive behind this carnal approach to a serious matter.
Why advertise to such an extent? It would appear that they’re using this almost as an ‘evangelistic’ tool to bring people in, in which case it’s completely unscriptural.
Or…they are advertising to let other Christians know, but because it’s on on a Sunday they are obviously trying to lure other believers into their church, by keeping them away from their own church.
Gordon said, “One reason sexual immorality is so rampant in our culture is because of the silence of the church.”
I really doubt that Gordon. The reason for sexual immorality being rampant is
a) the lack of preaching “Christ crucified”
b) the unholiness of the Church
c) because of the corrupt nature of man
If Christ alone was preached, souls would be saved. If Christ alone is preached, those souls will be holy, and if those holy Christians go out into society and preach Christ, then THAT will subdue immorality.
Preaching about sex is not going to fix anything!
I have to disagree with the thinking that this idea of preaching about sex is somehow a bad thing. I hope my status as a young person doesn’t automatically put blinders on those who read my opinion, but I’ll say it anyway.
The fact is, sexual immorality is something that has been a rampant problem for far too long. And instead of dealing with the problem headon, the Church has turned it’s back on the issue in hopes that it will work itself out because it might be considered an “ungodly” thing to talk about. But in truth, it’s something that should be high topic on the Church’s to-do list. Sex is a gift from God, not something that should be immoral. But because the human race has taken sex out of it’s original purpose, to be a gift for a husband and his wife, we have cast a shadow on the subject. The Church has for some reason forgotten the original meaning, and has chosen to totally ignore the issue.
I applaud this Church for taking a step in the direction of fixing the problem in society - to restore the gift’s dignity. I see nothing wrong with their extensive advertising. The fact is, it’s something that needs to be heard by many, many people caught in the world’s deadly view of sex. Too many people have drifted from God or have never been close to God because of sexual immorality. They need to do everything in their power to get this message out - including extensive advertising. That might even mean advertising that may turn some heads, as long as it is kept in reason, as their’s has done. Now, I agree that their goal shouldn’t be to “steal” members of other churches away from a church family. But I believe their goal is truly in the best of intentions.
The worship service should be about worship. Many churches in America are dead from the neck up because of preaching that focuses on social issues and does not have the magnification of Christ as its focus. All churches should address all social issues, but in a forum other than the worship service.
I think a lot of Christians are unaware (judging by a few of the comments here) that marriage and sex were created by God primarily as a picture of how He relates to His people. Therefore, biblical teaching on sexuality - if done correctly - is one of the very best ways there is to preach the Gospel, since it’s employing one of the clearest illustrations of the Gospel that God has given us.
Just because you preach about social issues or what is going on in the world does not mean whatsoever that Christ cannot be the magnification of it’s focus. There are tons of ways to keep Christ as the focus and glorify him in a sermon about sex. Worship isn’t just singing to God - it’s glorifying God. You can glorify God while having a sermon about sex.
That’s actually something that could help change someone’s life around - I’d say that’s glorifying God and keeping Christ as the focus. After all, sex is meant to glorify God.
Aw, Peter R. beat my to it by two minutes. If I confused you by what I said, just read Peter’s comment again and go with that.
I’m a big fan of sex. =0p
I thought the video was tastefully done. We’d obviously have to hear the message before we truly know what it’s about, but I think it could be a great way to get young people to church and hear the Gospel.
Now let’s see if they get the Gospel…
“For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.” Matthew 15:19
The wickedness of our hearts is the source of sexual immorality, not the ’silence’ of the church. The heart can only be renewed by the Gospel. A sermon series on ‘good sex’ won’t/can’t fix the problem.
Larry, you’re right about one thing. We are the source of sexual immorality, not the Church. But the problem is when the Church stands by in silence and does nothing to help resolve the problem by bringing the Gospel to the people. A sermon series is exactly what is needed to help fix the problem.
Scott - please do not deny the scriptures. It’s Christ crucified that sinners need to hear. His condescension, life, death, ressurection, ascension, intersession…
Are they going to hear that? The advertising is explicity declaring, “Come and hear about what God thinks and says about sex”
It’s not saying, “Come and hear the glorious truth of the crucified Son of God”
I hope I am wrong, but when you say, “But the problem is when the Church stands by in silence and does nothing to help resolve the problem by bringing the Gospel to the people.” are you saying that the gospel is not enough to solve the ‘problem’?
Zoner - “but I think it could be a great way to get young people to church”
I have to say this, but that kinda statement makes me cringe!
FACT - preach Christ under the anointing of the Holy Spirit and young people will come in! Why? Put simply - it’s God’s way, and any other way is mans way.
Is 31:1 “Woe unto them that go down to Egypt…”
I agree with what Craig suggests.
“Your Best Sex Life Now” does not have Christ as its focus, I’m guessing. Now, preaching on Song is a different thing.
Armen, I feel that all sermons and lessons should be based on the fact that Christ was sacrificed so that we may live and be forgiven. But the key word is “based.” If you don’t relate that fact to anything, you have the same exact sermon every Sunday. The same lesson. You get the picture after a few weeks.
But when that same concept of Christ’s sacrifice is applied to different issues that are of importance to Christians and non-Christians seeking God, things start to click in people’s minds. I just don’t understand why you and others are so opposed to the idea of applying God’s word to the concept of what sex is really all about. I mean, is it really such a terrible thing for the pastor to say the word “sex” at the pulpit?
In a perfect world, yes, hearing that Jesus died for us would be enough to fix the problem, any problem. But the sad truth, a real “inconvienient truth,” if you will, is that the world is not perfect. People are not perfect. They sometimes need to hear it in a different light - maybe applied to the big issues in their life. Then the wheels start turning and God’s love is revealed to them. People don’t always understand that Jesus died for them specifically - by name. Not us just as a general group of folks. But when they see that Jesus died for forgivness of Jim Bob’s sexual immorality specifically, or Sally Mae realizes He forgave her alcohol abuse - they get the full picture.
That’s why the Gospel needs to be applied specifically to these issues. You can’t sugarcoat it. It’s time for the Church to face the music and tackle these issues in society headon, by name.
Sure it’s important to understand that the Son of God was crucified for each and every one of us - but that’s why it’s so important to apply the Gospel to specific issues. If you don’t apply God’s word to your life, what’s the point?
I agree with much you said there Scott, but now I’m thinking that it’s not so much we believe something different as it is the fact that one of us is interpreting what ‘Epic Church’ are wanting to do!
You feel that they are going to preach Christ and what the Word teaches regarding physical relationships. I feel that they are going to refer to a verse or two and then warp it into so-called scriptural psychiatry message.
At any rate, time will tell!
(on another note - it annoys me the way you can’t even skip their daft intro to their website)
That’s true - I wonder if their will be a way to listen to or read the lessons once they occur. I’d be interested to see the path they take.
I like it. I like it alot. It is tasteful, and practical.
I don’t know how many of the people who are commenting here are pastors, and how many people are laymen, but I can tell you that from my perspective, this is necessary! It is part of teaching and preaching the WHOLE counsel of God, not just part of it. People need practical Bible teaching, and right now.
A few years ago, when I was a pastor, I determined to do a series on sex. And I was an expository preacher all the way. But we came to that place in the Bible, and I was not going to ignore it. So as I promoted it among all those farmers and ranchers out on the high plains, I said that for the next four Sundays, it was adults only. We would make provision for the children who were too young to be in there (we left that up to the parents to determine), and that the content would be of a mature nature.
We had the biggest crowds we ever saw! People wanted to hear about it.
I commend the leaders of this church for reaching out to people where they are.
Ok, ok, now boys! See if my view of this doesn’t reconcile much of the ideological tension here.
#1 Awesome advertisement! And, very appropriate to the target of the series - those of a sexually mature age. I hope it’s not copyrighted, because I’d love to download it and perhaps use it myself!
#2 Urgent Subject in Need of Biblical Exhortation. Many people falsely use a “puritan” description to describe those who are sexually repressed and this is historically INaccurate in regards to the Puritans. That said, we have indeed fostered a repressed silence in the American church which in many ways has helped (no, not the source problem) the spread of immorality within the Christian ranks (lost people are in bondage to their sin - they need no help in corruption nor will be helped by moral exhortation devoid of the gospel anyway).
#3 The best venue for this important series would be a conference, a retreat, or any series of meetings scheduled outside of the main worship of the church.
#4 The church helps equip the saints. And in this case can help equip Christian parents to instruct their children. BUT the church is not the agent to inititate children into the world of sexual knowledge, but rather their parents as supported by the church.
The main Lord’s Day service must certainly expound the whole counsel of God’s Word - but always with the understood context of a diverse, multi-generational audience. This is a topical series aimed at the sexually mature. Therefore, I would hope they would host this series on Saturday night or Sunday night services (so long as the service can be demographically targeted to the right audience).
These same issues can be addressed in the main worship, and through other age-appropriate venues but not in the same provocative manner.
Hope it helps.
I just think perhaps we shouldn’t judge a church without having heard the sermons ourselves.
And the Bible can be pretty sexual in parts, too. Last time I read the Song of Songs it was pretty sexual. So I don’t think God minds.
As for me….I am a lay person. Someone who wishes the church would stop arguing on how to reach the people and just start doing it.
Indeed, we should teach and preach through the Song of Songs, and all the Bible has for us in relationship to sexuality particularly as a picture of Christ and His relationship to the Church.
I guess I am more dismayed at what we are leaving out of our preaching; such as the physical resurrection of Christ from the dead and His physical ascension into glory, and His continuing intercession before the Father on my behalf in His glorified body.
If these issues were preached and contemplated the whole tone of Christian life would be improved.
Stephen, you’re right. We shouldn’t judge that this church’s series is without merit until we hear it. My apprehension is with the way they “market” the series. And there are good churches that do market certain series whether it be about politics, finances, sex, marriage, etc. I simply disagree with “Cialis” advertising of church functions, thinking there is a better way, but I certainly don’t think it’s an item to condemn someone on. And, no, I don’t like the “Power Team” or celebrity testimonies simply for drawing people in.
Ray’s statement also concerned his children, which you seemed to echo (I may be wrong in this assessment) when you commented about not letting your daughter cross the street alone, but that you could.
Paul often confronts the sexuality issues of his day, as should the church today. It should also confront dishonesty in business, bitterness, racism and other products of the Fall. It should be based on God’s revelation of Himself in Scripture, and not our social predispositions. That’s a very difficult thing to do, especially with all the hyperbole and straw men that are thrown about, but if a pastor preaches through the whole of Scripture, rather than picking a topic or skipping a difficult text, he will get to the issues. There is more to the Gospel than forgiveness of sin; there is power and provision to live a God-honoring life. II Peter 1:2-11
BTW, I’m not a pastor, either.
People need to chill out. The Bible talks about sex more graphically than most people are willing to admit or deal with.
Wonder if an expositional series on the Song of Songs would satisfy all parties concerned.
“Urgent Subject in Need of Biblical Exhortation”. Exactly.
What is wrong with my saying that maybe it will bring young people to church? Why do you assume that Christ won’t be preached? If it gives them a chance to hear the Gospel and learn about sex the way God intended it, there is no need for your cringing. Just rejoicing.
Tim brings up the subject of sexa nd the board goes wild with activity. It must be ratings week.
I have to say that, yes, it is of utmost importance to preach Christ crucified and risen, but as a previous commenter said, after a few weeks, we get it. I think that many Christians today, especially new believers, don’t know what being a Christ follower LOOKS LIKE. Many a Christian will have a heart for God, but doesn’t realize how much of his/her life still resembles that of the fallen world. I’m sure that for many people, sex is one of those areas of life where they just don’t know what it should look like for a believer.
Sure, this church has all the flash and stuff, but maybe they do this for every sermon series? Maybe it’s just their way. I think it could be interesting, and would love copies of the sermons.
Would it be as active if “love of money” was the topic?
Armen, I have been out of town for a couple of days, I apologize for waiting so long to answer you. The church should definitely preach Christ crucified, but we are to preach the whole counsel of the word of God. There is much more in the Bible than the Gospel (and I do not mean that disparagingly of the Gospel in any way).
If God didn’t want the church to teach about sex, I don’t think He would have mentioned the topic in the Bible as much as He did.
“If God didn’t want the church to teach about sex, I don’t think He would have mentioned the topic in the Bible as much as He did.”
Good point, Gordon.
And why do we have to worry about offending people? Forgive me, but unless a given sermon is actually going to cause someone to fall into sin, then the sky is the limit. Offending people is inevitable. I for one am tired of trying to walk on some impossible tightwire so that I don’t offend someone. If I offend you, I’m sorry you are offended but I am not sorry for bringing up an issue that requires discussion and meditation.
I just think such a topic should be reserved as a mid-week Bible Study amongst Christians. Infact, any sexual, relationship, or marriage issues can generally be resolved by seeking God in prayer. It’s like those who come for advice about God’s will in their lives. A pastor may give instruction, but ultimately the individual must seek God.
I may be wrong in this, but I get particularly suspicious when I read,
“No long boring sermons filled with terminology you don’t understand, just messages that relate to real issues in your life!”
In my opinion, this is a sure way to shallow Christianity. If the preaching is shallow, those that sit under it will most likely be the same. People that want to actually go on with God and deepen their knowledge of God through theological study, will head off to hear someone like Alan Cairns or John Piper, men who expound the Word as it ought to be.
I am unashamedly reformed folks, and I make no excuses for it. I believe that the preaching of the Word of God ought to be central in all our worship and in the reaching out to the lost. I have no sympathy for diluting the gospel or using a means not ordained by God, such as a mime, performing arts displays, or even using music as a means to win people to Christ.
Clearly, what’s needed here is a list of Reformed (TM)-approved sermon topics.
People that want to actually go on with God and deepen their knowledge of God through theological study, will head off to hear someone like Alan Cairns or John Piper, men who expound the Word as it ought to be.
I have to drive past Piper’s church to get to mine each week. My interest in a deep knowledge of God persists nonetheless.
It strikes me that not one person on this comment thread has listened to what Pastor Tim Kade actually said about sexuality. Do we know which passages he’s preaching out of? What were his conclusions? Not a clue. We’ve seen a 30-second commercial and somehow feel qualified to label this guy as a promoter of “shallow Christianity” and dilution of the gospel.
Peter - I have already said that before we could say anymore, we would need to hear the messages.
However, my mentioning of shallow Christianity comes by his own admission that he preaches, “No long boring sermons filled with terminology you don’t understand, just messages that relate to real issues in your life!”
Here he’s trying to say that preachers who preach doctrine and expound deeper truths of theology, are boring. He also gets at preachers who preach for a long time.
I’ve sat and listened to messages 90 minutes long, and at the end of it I wish they had never stopped!
I heard someone say once, “sermonettes breed Christianettes”. I’m not sure if that’s always true, but it’s a provoking thought.
Also, I’m glad you can go past John Piper’s church and still have your hunger satisfied. I’m definately not saying that the men I mentioned are the only ones, I’m just giving an example - it would be nice if there were more though.
He also implies learning true doctrine to come to a better knowledge of Christ is not a real issue of life. It is the issue.