The 4th of July in church
July 3rd, 2008Michael McKinley over at the 9Marks blog gives a couple of reasons why his church doesn’t do anything to acknowledge the July 4 holiday during a Sunday morning worship service.
First, I don’t want to have an American church. I want to pastor a church in America. We have members from 20 different countries. More than one in three of our members were not born in America. I don’t presume that they consider the American military “our” military. I don’t even presume that they think of America as “our” country. I want them to come to church and experience great unity with their brothers and sisters in Christ. Scripture makes it clear that our unity is not to be based on nationality or culture.
Second, I think in our culture the evangelical church (especially the Southern Baptists with our God and Country celebrations) is often synonymous with right-wing patriotism. So I think it doesn’t serve the gospel well to make a big show of patriotism in our worship gatherings. My fear is that it will hurt the Christians (”I must be a good Christian, I am a patriot and have a yellow ribbon sticker on my car”) and the non-Christians (”Being a Christian means being a good American”).
He’s right on the money. Here’s some of what I said previously about the topic:
A worship service is supposed to be about honoring Almighty God for the redemption He has provided through our Lord Jesus Christ. We should be worshipping God, not the United States. At the church I was going to attend this morning (not the church we normally attend), I went to Sunday School but didn’t stay for worship when I saw the songs that were going to be sung — including “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” and “My Country, ‘Tis of Thee” — and that the congregation was going to recite the “Pledge of Allegiance” during the service. I didn’t feel like vomiting in church, because civil religion like this churns my stomach. It diverts praise rightly due God to the United States, and that’s idolatry.
I was born in Mexico (came here at age 9) and am incredibly thankful for the opportunity found in America.
Never was quite able to understand those who come here, especially my countrymen, and denigrate this country. Bemoaning the fact that “it is so much better back in the old country”.
That reeks of ingratitude, not to mention forgetfulness since the reason that one came here is conveniently forgotten merely because one has a phantom ax to grind with whatever injustice one has conjured up.
That being said, I couldn’t agree more with McKinley’s article.
I do agree with NOT doing anything to recognize the 4th of July in church service. Church is for God and of God as Christians we are members of the universal Church that extends far beyond the boundries of the USA. I do not think Memorial Day or any others excluding Christmas and Easter should be celebrated in church. In our church we do not even really do anything for Mothers and Fathers Day. These holidays are fine to celebrate(with the exception of halloween) are fine to celebrate apart from church. I attended a church that every year has a big 4th of July picnic. But does no special service.
I do however not like how he states that the other members of his church not born here may not consider this “their” country or “their” military. If they don’t they should! They live here in the USA and enjoy the freedom that “our” soldiers have fought and died for. They work and enjoy the money they get paid in “our” currency. This is a free country and I have no problem with any one living here no matter where they are born. But if you enjoy “our” freedom then you should consider it your freedom and be thankful that you can live here freely.
OK I am off my soap box now :-)!
“I think in our culture the evangelical church (especially the Southern Baptists with our God and Country celebrations) is often synonymous with right-wing patriotism.”
Pigs must be flying. I agree.
If evangelism and patriotism were truly synonymous, it implies one can’t be an evangelical without being a patriot and one can’t be a patriot without being an evangelical.
Jesus told us how our worship should be: in Spirit and Truth.
Did somebody steal Cineaste’s login info and post that comment above?
j razz
Ditto Tim. We as Christians are citizens of heaven. Anyone who knows me will tell you that I an a very patriotic person but patriotic songs and symbolism simply have no place in a church service. I wonder how we would feel if we attended a worship service in some other country and they started singing patriotic hymns extolling the virtues of their government or founding fathers. The church should be an embassy where Christians of all nationalities should find a place where the language and customs of home are practiced.
Toss me on the bandwagon, too. In fact, we’re going to a different church to hear one of my best friend’s preach.
Amen, Tim. I agree and I appreciate your commentary on this each year. Thanks!
Happy 4th of July everyone!
Click here for Cineaste’s special 4th of July message.
Tim,
Thanks for this post. I agree with you.
I’m not sure if you’ve seen this or not, but some of the pro-patriotism in worship comments here are unbelievable.
Mark
Thanks for the link, Mark. I hadn’t seen that. Excellent post, with — like you said — some unbelievable comments.
We said the pledge and sang “My Country Tis of Thee.” I would rather we not have did either. But at the same time we have a lot of fomer military, and they’ve done it for a long time. I haven’t been here for that long. It’s something I’d rather not have, but I’m going to pick my battles, and this is one I’m just not going to fight. I did warn of the danger of being overly reverent towards any nation. The hopes and fears of the world do not lie in the fate of America, but in the hands of God.
Would any of you have done differently and made it a bigger issue?
Disagree with you (and apparently everyone) on this, Tim.
I see nothing wrong with celebrating America’s birth in church during this holiday. Am I substituting (or even preferring) my citizenship in Heaven for my American citizenship? Of course not! Before the birth of America, you have to go all the way back to Mt. Sinai to find a nation that was founded on the premise that God determines the value and worth of men. Our country is one of a kind. We have a Christian nation (albeit a shrinking, doctrinally-unsound Christian nation, for the most part) with a secular government. Our laws and ideas of justice are based on the revelations and teachings of the one true God.
If that isn’t a reason to celebrate and offer praise to God, then I don’t know what is. Have you actually read all of the lyrics to the “Battle Hymn of the Republic”?
“In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free;”
What about that makes your stomach turn, Tim? This is a beautiful hymn. Made even more so by the acts that it commemorates, in my opinion.
I am heartily confused by all the responses on this post. I am not suggesting that to be a patriot in America you have to be a Christian, but I don’t understand the vehement responses to the combination of praise to God and thanksgiving for the blessed nation in which we reside on this Christian message board. It is was only with a reliance on Godly principles that it was even possible for our brilliant forefathers to create a nation such as ours, and to disavow the connection seems to be a bit near-sighted.
Luke, I’ll stand by my comments earlier and add this. I agree with you that it’s good to give thanks for the blessings we enjoy as a nation, and it’s good and right or us to pray for our country and our leaders, but I’m afraid that at times we have crossed into endorsing our country and it’s values. To me, the church should stand apart from our national identity. We are called to be priests on behalf of our culture and prophets that share the message of God’s kingdom to our culture.
I wonder how we would all feel if we attended a worship service in Redmond, Washington only to hear the members of the congregation sing the praises of Microsoft. Would that not seem strange to us?
Luke,
I’m not sure that people are arguing for not celebrating America’s birth on this holiday. We are concerned about doing so in and during corporate worship to God.
The nations you speak of in the Old Testament would be established by the election of God and His covenant. America does not fit this description. Our country is one of a kind in many things, yes.
Let’s assume your argument that we have a Christian nation and take into account, in principle, God’s covenant nation in the OT. You admitted that “(albeit a shrinking, doctrinally-unsound Christian nation, for the most part) with a secular government.”
Now just what would God have his people with the Gospel, the church, do with such a nation? I believe your answer can actually be found in the OT i.e. the prophets. Would He have us praise the nation itself for what it is in it’s current state that you presented? No, God would call for the nation’s repentance while counting the blessing God has given and we have squandered. Plus, you admitted we have a secular gov’t.
As to the Battle Hymn, does is matter you to that Julia Ward Howe was a Unitarian Universalist?
In 1839, Howe said, “I studied my way out of all the mental agonies which Calvinism can engender and became a Unitarian.”
In some sense there might be a Christian “principle” in her foundation, but that underlying theology is not honoring to God.
I think you don’t understand because when we come to gather to worship God we sing praise to Him not to His creation. Patriotism doesn’t need to be part of and ingrained into a worship service. The only reason the US is such a great nation is by God’s grace alone and that is what our focus should be in our praising.
Mark
Is that how you see your country, Joel? As a corporation? Was Microsoft founded on biblical principles? Has it worked since it’s inception to set people, who are under the burden of slavery, free?
If I enjoy celebrating the birth of my country in church, because it was founded on God’s principles and has freed more people than any other nation in history, how am I not being a “priest on behalf of our culture” and a “prophet that shares the message of God’s kingdom to our culture”? How are the two mutually exclusive?
To get back to your earlier example, if I was in a worship service in another country and they started singing a war hymn that acknowledged God’s blessings and extolled his virtues, but it was tied to that country’s nationality, I would sing along gratefully! God is good, no matter who’s country is singing his praises! If it’s my home-country, then how much more enjoyment will I have in honoring Him?
Please read the lyrics of these songs that you are dismissing (’Battle Hymn of the Republic’ and ‘My Coutry Tis of Thee’) and tell me where the fault lies in expressing these sentiments in church?
“Was Microsoft founded on biblical principles? Has it worked since it’s inception to set people, who are under the burden of slavery, free?”
Those are the very questions I would ask as well. Was America founded on truly biblical principles or were they principles of the enlightenment? We are certainly not a theocracy. If all men are truly created equal, why was slavery written into our constitution and why do we still neglect the millions of unborn whose civil rights are trampled under the banner of “personal freedom.” Yes, I believe that God is using Christians to move and change our culture but we are far from being all that God wants us to be. I don’t hate my country but I’m not in the “love it or leave it” crowd either. I’m simply afraid of tying the church too closely to the state or any other man made organization.
BTW, in the next century, the worlds largest Christian nation will be China. Praise God that his kingdom is advancing and neither Rome nor Communist Russia, nor China can stop it.
Mark,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t one of the purposes of worship service to thank God for his blessings and honor Him for what He has given us? So how can speaking or singing about a nation that was founded on principles revealed to mankind by our Creator be wrong?
I’m not comparing the US to Israel. I am simply stating that before the US’s inception, no other nation was founded on biblical principles since those very principles were communicated to the nation of Israel. Is this an incorrect statement?
We do have a secular government. We are not a theocracy (like Israel and Judah were in the OT). But we still retain the mindset that man is fallen and protections were written into the Constitution to protect man from himself. This has since been copied many times in subsequent governments, but is/was uniquely American and remarkable.
It doesn’t matter to me if Julia Ward Howe was a purple people eater and she wrote those lyrics. The lyrics give God the praise that is due him and it doesn’t matter to me who the author is. Does it matter to you? I am not a Calvinist either, should you dismiss my words as well? I don’t understand why everyone on this post is so quick to reject nationality classifications due to the superiority of Heavenly Citizenship (rightly so), only to reintroduce classifications based on denominations (wrongly so). Why the inconsistency in logic, Mark?
I’m not advocating “praising God’s creation”. America was not God’s creation. It was created by a group of brave men with free will who had a firm grasp on Bible doctrine. It was inspired by God and created by men. And that is what I celebrate in church on Independance Day. I don’t worship or praise our forefathers, but celebrate before God the wisdom that He blessed them with and praise the ideals (ideals that are rooted in the perfect person of the Lord) that they worked to establish in the foundation of this country: justice, equality, and liberty.
Luke,
First, I was not introducing demoninationalism, but theology. That is, Christian vs. non-Christian theology. IOW, heavenly citizenship vs. non-citizenship. You’re not a Calvinist, but you’re a Christian. I’d have no trouble praying with you, but I would with TD Jakes. And I wouldn’t use his material either.
I really don’t want to get side-tracked into talking about how other nations were founded, etc. I have not studied all other nations so that would be a tough question to answer. Since all good comes from God then the good principles that other nations have used in establishing themselves could also be said to implicitly be founded on principles revealed to mankind by our Creator. Whether they recognize it or not. The problem I see in this line of thinking is that a principle is nothing without its Principal!
It seems as though the lens through which we should look at and base our worship on is the Bible itself. What is worship and how do we understand and apply it as laid out in the Bible? I believe if we start here we won’t end up in the place you are advocating.
I could be wrong and maybe you could either i. build on this starting point and show how you are correct or ii. show biblically that this is an incorrect starting point.
Your last paragraph really seems to show where the dividing line is in this conversation.
America was not God’s creation. It was created by a group of brave men with free will who had a firm grasp on Bible doctrine. It was inspired by God and created by men. And that is what I celebrate in church on Independance Day. I don’t worship or praise our forefathers, but celebrate before God the wisdom that He blessed them with and praise the ideals (ideals that are rooted in the perfect person of the Lord) that they worked to establish in the foundation of this country: justice, equality, and liberty.
Your focus seems to switch between God and man. God certainly does establish governments, but if you want to quibble over “create” vs. “establish” fine. God should still be praised, not man.
Looking at the US today using biblical principles certainly leads me to believe we should thank God for this nation while calling the nation as a whole to repentance. Do you agree?
Mark
p.s. I had no trouble being sworn in, saying the Pledge, nor taking an oath to serve and protect my state and country which was done at the appropriate time.
Mark,
“It seems as though the lens through which we should look at and base our worship on is the Bible itself.” Absolutely.
Worship takes many forms in the Bible. Fasting, acts of service, prayer, exclamations of praise, thanksgiving, requests, obediance, and probably many more that I have missed. I’m not exactly sure what your point was in wanting to start there. I am advocating biblical worship. Once again, I see the lyrics of the “Battle Hymn of the Republic” honoring God, not worshipping America. Do you see this differently?
I do not worship my country. I have one triune God. I do think that my country is remarkable in it’s foundation, it’s endurance, and it’s continuing efforts to spread freedom to anyone in need, but that is not worship just admiration. Why do you feel that I am worshipping my country by enjoying that we can sing praises and say prayers to God for the country that we have been given?
“God should still be praised, not man.” Again, I’m not praising man. I admire our forefathers for what they accomplished and the bravery that they exhibited. Is that idol worship? Where did I say that men should be praised over God?
“Looking at the US today using biblical principles certainly leads me to believe we should thank God for this nation while calling the nation as a whole to repentance. Do you agree?” Yes, I do. Absolutely.
-Luke
Luke,
In those forms of worship that you mention how do you fit patriotism into them?
As for the Battle Hymn, maybe my objection is because I live in the South?
j/k The Battle Hymn was written for the Union from an unbiblical foundation so I don’t really care much for it. In that sense it does miss the mark of honoring God. However, that is a song that is not necessarily objected against as “patriotic,” but songs like America the Beautiful, God Bless America, My Country Tis of Thee, etc. are more often the ones objected to. Is the focus of these patriotic hymns God or country?
I believe you somewhat loosely implied men being praised, not necessarily over God, but where He should be. This is in reference to the paragraph I pointed to as our dividing line. However, that paragraph is somewhat ambiguous in its clear meaning.
It seems we’ve reached more agreement as well as an impasse. I appreciate the dialogue and will continue to think and pray on this.
Blessings,
Mark
Mark,
If I implied men should be praised where God should be, it was a mistake. That’s not what I meant to say and I don’t believe it.
I can see your point about some of the songs that are more Anthem and less Hymn.
I appreciate the dialogue as well. Thank you.
-Luke
Luke,
I’m sorry if I misunderstood or took any of your implications too far.
Also, thank you for not getting upset or saying you want to ship me to another country or anything like that.
Grace to you brother,
Mark
And to you, Mark.
Certainly we must devote much thought into church-state matters such as these. I’m not fully on board with Dever and the IX Marks model on this issue, but I am appreciative of the wisdom being shared with us. One day I’ll try to iron out my own view on the matter. In essence, I lean more toward meeting the culture where it is and making a bee-line to the gospel while being appreciative for the God-given priviledge of being an American.
By the way, Tim, you statement reminded me of the similar sentiment of pacifist Methodist ethicist Stanley Hauerwas in this radio discussion with Mark Dever and Russ Moore on Dr. Mohler’s Program:http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_show.php?cdate=2008-07-03
I suspect it might be one of the few points of intersect between you and Hauerwas. ;-D
Dr. Gushee (mentioned in this same radio program) wrote an interesting article (probably his best ABP contribution :-)) on the subject that stimulates some good further discussion:
http://www.abpnews.com/3266.article
Oops, here is that Mohler radio link in user friendly form:
http://www.albertmohler.com/radio_show.php?cdate=2008-07-03