It’s Open Blog Friday
June 30th, 2006
Talk about whatever. Here’s a question for starters, if you choose to answer it: Which Founding Father do you most admire, and why?
Alexander Hamilton (pictured here) is at the top of my list. The man was a genius, and his policies laid much of the foundation for this country as we know it today. As far as politics and economics go, Hamilton was the single-most influential person in American history.
I’m also convinced that Hamilton was a Christian. I’m not entirely sure when he became a believer, and there were certainly times in his life when he didn’t act like one. But on his deathbed, he said this: “I am a sinner. I look to His mercy. … I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Almighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ” (from Ron Chernow’s “Alexander Hamilton”).
That sure sounds like saving faith to me.
By the way, if you haven’t read Chernow’s book on Hamilton , I highly recommend it.
I most admire John Adams. I am partly biased because I am related but also am amazed at his conviction and dedication to seeing the success of this country. I am convinced that he was a Christian from reading letters to his wife that have been published. David McCullough’s book on John Adams was pretty good.
I know not all this country’s founding father’s were perfect but they put their heart and soul into getting this country going. They sacrificed time with their families, personal health, even their lives for what they believed in. And I am grateful every day they did.
I thought John Adams was a Unitarian. I could be wrong, but it seems like I remember reading something about that.
http://members.iconn.net/~gedney1/FamousUUs.htm#polUUs
Interesting list of Unitarian Universalists
I stand corrected on that part. (Thanks Tim and Chuck)
I’d have to say Washington. He was probably the forst man in history with so much political power at his disposal, yet gave it up for the good of the new nation. He set the tone for how futire leaders should do. What humility.
As far as Hamilton, I agree with you Tim. BUT, did he ever drink alcohol?? He may be a Christian but he probably wouldn’t qualify as a Baptist!
Two days ago I read the chapter titled “The Duel” in Joseph Ellis’s Founding Brothers. Ellis paints Hamilton as quite the character. From what I’ve read I’m very imressed with Madison.
“Founding Brothers” is a great book. Have you read the rest of the book, Brett?
Hey you guys, think you have what it takes to become a US citizen? Let’s see how you score on this immigration test.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13442226/
I passed the quiz with 90%. I didn’t know which INS form needed to be filled out in the naturalization process.
Welcome to America!
Attention all Arminians, Pelagians, semi-Pelagians, and Anti-Calvinists!!! Your help is needed.
I’m preaching this Sunday on 1 Corinthians 1.25-31.
As I’ve interacted with the passage this week, I’ve come to a a point of not being able to figure out how it can be reconciled with any theology other than Reformed or Calvinistic theology.
The standard non-Reformed view of election is that God chooses who will be saved based upon looking out into the future to see who will choose Him. So did God look out into the future and choose mostly the non-wise, foolish, weak, “low and despised” of this world because that was largely the demographic that chose Him? Did their lower station in life help humble them and put them at an advantage to choose to be saved? If so, why doesn’t Paul state that as the reason why God chose them? Instead he states that the reason was so that no one would boast in the presence of God (v. 29). If God chose me because I chose Him, it seems I might have reason to boast before Him!
And so my question is: how do you interpret this passage in a way that is logical and yet squares with your theology?
With a 95% I guess I get to stay in the United States of America. I just need to learn how many Supreme Court Justices there are.
95 percent for me. Like Bob, I missed the one on the naturalization application form. How the heck was I supposed to know that? It’s a form I’m never going to need.
Ah, grasshopper… work with international contractors will expand your experiences to a whole new world of naturalization knowledge.
100%…guess Ican stay.
I guessed right on two - the naturalization form and the thirteen original colonies. The latter was a far more “educated” guess than the former. I made a 100% - do I get a star?
95 percent. Didn’t know the form for Naturalization….
After reading Brett’s post and his questions, my head is spinning……….ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
Besides, even with all our “important” titles and everything, aren’t we all at a low station? Almighty God is the only one who should be high and lifted up. He alone is worthy.
Hamilton was a great father; I’ve always leaned more to James Madison. He contributed to the Federalist papers and practically wrote the Constitution by himself. I don’t know his state of faith, but he based his governmental ideas on Isaiah 33:22:
“For the LORD is our judge, [judicial]
the LORD is our lawgiver, [legislative]
the LORD is our king; [executive]
He will save us.”
As president he signed a bill providing federal funds for the distribution of Bibles - how things have changed. Also he was really short.
Trivia: Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and James Monroe had all died on July 4 (Jeff and Adams on the same one.) Madison was fading fast toward the end of June, and his doctor offered to try to keep him hanging on until the upcoming Independence Day. Madison’s reply was something like, “Are you kidding?”
Feeling like I’d need a Master’s degree in some-ology to follow that sermon….
Ouch, guys. Harsh-in’ on Brett, today…
But here’s a question… what do the titles that we construct to describe our collection of beliefs, serve? Most folks don’t even know what they believe, let alone what to call it. Ask a Joe Church-attender (or even Joe Average-Deacon) and see if they know if they’re a this versus a that. Most don’t.
I think these discussions exist mostly for the saved. They help us (we think) to build our understanding of God (we think). They do little for the unsaved.
Regardless of “divine destiny” (pre or otherwise), we’re called to “go and make disciples”. There’s no limiting qualifier on who that might be…
At the same time, I have felt led to pursue study on these things (broadly, Church history) so that I might be able to communicate effectively. Is that the point that those of you who are well-versed see? Is there a risk of using that “language” in an audience that doesn’t understand it?
Or do I just hang out with uneducated common-folk that happen to be clueless on such things - but the majority of our target audience will?
Please, this is an honest question and one that I’ve been working through for months. There’s no judging from me on it. Just seeking input, since it came up today…
Brett, I think it’s a great question. I’m still waiting for an Arminian to explain it logically. I think we’ll be waiting for a while, though.
Bob,
If we are all at a low station as you say then what would be the point of Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians? Don’t you render his words meaningless if we’re all on equal footing?
It’s true that we are all low compared to God but the point of the passage is that not many of the mighty and noble in man’s eyes and according to man’s standards are called. It pleased God to choose His people primarily (not exclusively) from the low and common people of the world so that there is no place for boasting.
You think you are a sports fan? Check out these guys. Unreal. http://chicagozoner.blogspot.com/
The High Price of American Gullibility
http://www.vdare.com/roberts/060628_gullibility.htm
Jason, didn’t mean to come off as harsh, just don’t know the doctrinal “lingo” as well as some on here seem to. I’m doing my homework as topics like this come up though.
My favorite founding father was George Washington. Unwavering commitment to the task he was given along with devotion to God made this man a great one. I also appreciate his desire to avoid the corruption that power sometimes brings.
BTW, I scored 95%.
Zoner, Thanks for arming me with another weapon for my, “See, I’m not so bad…” argument with my better half!
Bob M., please don’t tell me you are the typical postmodern American who hates doctrine and labels because they divide…
Hey Gordon, long time no see.
Enjoy Italian food? Check out my list of favorites at my blog and tell me yours…
Heres a great story, a little dated but I just found it
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/sports/atoz/article_856721.php
Brett, I know you directed your comment to Bob, but I think labels can be effective. I just question their appropriateness in all audiences.
I also think it’s important to not confuse “doctrine” with the labels for such. Doctrine is a good thing. Lables aren’t anything beyond “labels”.
My point is you can have a conversation about whether or not someone believes in pre-destination or not or what they believe about the Tribulation OR you can ask them if they’re Calvanist or Arminian or premilennial, postmilennial, etc. Which will most folks understand?
Maybe I’m making a mountain out of a mole hill…
Operation Rescue buys abortion clinic
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50845
Labels aren’t in and of themselves bad…that can be helpful. If a person tells me that they are Pre-trib PreMil, it saves both parties a lot of time. The danger is in oversimplifying or attaching more to the label than it represents.
For those who are totally geeks, Transformers Movie trailer released…
http://livedigital.com/content/474623/
I completely agree, Brett. The challenge I see is that I struggle to motivate those in my influence to study their Bible to figure out what they believe, let alone how to categorize (and label) what they believe.
Further, what purpose, if any, do they serve with unchurched folks?
Here’s a little bit about Jacob Arminius. He started out a Dutch Reform Calvinist, but throught the study of Romans (!) came to reject Calvinism. His belief was that faith was the CAUSE of election, rather than the other way around. He wrote in praise of teachers who “(did not) take away the free will of that which is evil.” So, he not only rejected limited atonement (which I think is a difficult and poor label) but also total depravity.
This info is from “131 Christians Everyone Should Know,” an excellent book for anyone interested in short and sweet incursions into Church history.
Brett, Marty and all others who have kindly addressed me……..
Nope, I’m not a post modern American. Just a guy who should know doctrine better, but doesn’t, and a guy who cannot discuss such things intelligently in this type of forum. I am the living embodiment of the phrase, “The more I think I know about _____ (fill in with any subject), the less I really know.” I mean, with pastors, authors, and all-around well-educated people here, I spend more time learning from other comments, than in thinking through my own ignorant opinions. Great topic, however.
Craig if this subject interests you from a historical standpoint, I highly recommend R. C. Sproul’s Willing to Believe: http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product/295386329?item_no=64122&event=CFN#curr
Bob M., thanks for your humility. Sometimes we mistake a person’s attitude when we read a comment. Sorry if I came back at you a little strong.
Leland, Lord willing, when it comes from the pulpit on Sunday it won’t be that difficult to follow.
To all of you who are not familiar with some of the terms in this discussion, I by no means am desiring to make anyone feel isolated, but I know that there are some readers of this blog who would like to dialogue about such matters and it was to them I was posing the question.
Thanks, Brett. Sproul is excellent. JI Packer also has an excellent, related treatise, “Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God.”
I’m with Tim on this one. I think we will be waiting forever before an Arminian can explain it logically
It’s a big boat we’re in, Bob. I am neither pastor, author, nor well-educated. Neither is most of who we’re called to minister to.
I do, however, consider myself a lay-minister. We all should be. That is exactly why I have asked the questions I have.
Brett-I’d certainly enjoy hearing and learning from it. To change the subject, I notice you know Alongi’s and Bennie’s. Are you originally a Southern Illinoisan? There’s another Italian restaurant in Herrin, the name escapes me. I’ve heard it’s good, but never ate there. I ate at the Old Town Spaghetti Store here in Jackson a little while ago, and was pretty impressed with their lasagna.
Leland… in my personal opinion, the Italian place in Herrin IS NOT great at all. Very average, at best.
(also a SoIL native. Seeing Alongi’s on Brett’s list kinda gave me the creeps. Good food, but many bad dates have been had there…
Jason-Just remembered the name. Lombard’s. Thanks for the warning, average Italian restaurants can be VERY disappointing, particularly when one’s expectations have been set high.
Jason,
You are correct. We minister in whatever we do; the question is, how well do we represent Jesus?
Brett,
I know that your diligent study of the Word of God will yield results in your upcoming message as the Spirit of God works through you in a mighty way. I pray that you will have clarity of thought and mind, and that those who hear the message will not be simply hearers, but doers also. (James 1:22, 25)
Leland, yes I am a native Southern Illinoisan. Have not lived there since graduating from high school, but my first 18 years were spent in the grand old town of Benton (pop. 6,600, Salut!). Since then I’ve been a Southerner, living in Texas, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Florida. Florida now for 6 years. My blood has thinned too! I hate cold weather! Get below 50 degrees and I’m hankerin’ to head south!
Brett-My family and I have been in Jackson, Tennessee for a couple of months now. Moved here from Cobden. I’ve never been a fan of cold weather, so the move even a little south was definitely a welcome change!
Bennies in Marion is good Italian!
The only trouble with Bennie’s Restaurant in Marion is this….if you go there you HAVE to get the house dressing on your salad (not their rule, you just HAVE to!). But if you’re married or seriously dating someone, you both have to get that dressing or else you can’t be within 10 feet of each other the rest of the evening. Two words….GAR-LIC!
LOL that is the truth!!! I love that dressing Tony!
That dressing is great, but I agree don’t go on a first date there.
So…you guys say don’t go on a first date to Bennies. Jason says he has some memories of bad dates at Alongi’s. Is it safe to say that Italian restaurants are maybe not the best place to go on a date? After all, it’s also a setting that can be notorious for getting stains on your clothes!
Good thing I’ve been happily married for years and don’t have to worry about first dates or keeping appearances up.
I eat Italian because I love it not for romantic purposes.
I’m a little late on this, but my favorite founding father is Patrick Henry. Great orator, strong Christian, and outstanding champion of religious liberties. He’s also the most underated of the founders.
Hope everyone has a great Independence Day.
Liberty or death!
If you can screw up a date at Alongi’s (in DuQuoin at least), stop eating pasta through your nose, it’s gotta be your fault.
New topic…
What is your favorite Italian dish named after a founding father of our country?
Ok favorite Italian dish named after a founding father. I’d have to say lasagna. No that’s not it. Baked ziti. Curses! I’m horrible at this game.
SWEET Mentos and Diet Coke Video
http://www.eepybird.com/dcm1.html#featured-video
Twenty mp3s of Great Songs from 1901-1920
http://www.foldedspace.org/weblog/2006/06/in_the_good_old_summertime.html
A new Canadian tool can re-grow teeth say inventors
Some on here may need this soon.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/28/060628204537.2422eofv.html
This article proves everything I’ve said about the Government! They can’t be trusted!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GNOME_INVASION?SITE=ORROS&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
NLCS Preview: Braves take game one, 6-3.
Sorry, Cardinals.
If you think either the Braves or the Cardinals are going to be in the NLCS, you’re out of your mind.
Oh hush. It’s nice to be optimistic sometimes, you know. I for one would like this to be an NLCS preview. The Cardinals deserve to be there - and you never know with the Braves.
Don’t be all upset because your team just lost.
Just like the playoffs last year…at team cannot be carried by one man’s ongoing heroic effort. I was afraid that Pujol’s ascent to the top would be followed by a drop into mediocrity as a team that the owners will find irrelevant as long as Prince Albert can continue to fill the seats.
My fears are in the process of being realized.
The Braves had one of the greatest runs in modern baseball history. Hats off to them.
here is a flash animation about a fetus who sings mommy why did you kill me. PROLIFE!
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/fetus
Tyler, what exactly is it that you do all day?
I work!
And apparently a lot of surfing the internet.
Ok i’m on season 1 episode 21 of Lost. I’ve been watching these things for 4 or 5 days now. Stupid show has Siad or whatever clocking the hammer back on a Glock (glocks are hammerless) and their fires burn better than any fire I could make with diesel. Anyway its a good show!
Tyler, it’s not a Glock, it’s a Sig Sauer. I’m about 4 episodes behind you.
At the beginning it is. But Lock and Boon find that drug running priest that had a glock. It was just stupid becasue like 2 seconds before it clearly shows the hammerless design of the Glock. Anyway I’ve got 3 episodes left and its a pretty good show. Kind of weird, but good. I do have one questions though, where did the french woman get her electricity? Also does the first episode give any clue as to what that wire is on the beach?
That is two questions, but I’ll answer them both: we don’t know for certain if the cable leads to the shack previously occupied by Rousseau, and we don’t know wherest the cable leads or whatest it is. Some say it is an underwater hatch, some say there is a oil drill rig, some say it has to do with the EM protection device to make the island invisible. I hope they answer that in season 3.
What is the latest episode number for season 2?
Piece of man’s skull falls off, draws crowds
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-07-05T123312Z_01_DEL109974_RTRUKOC_0_US-INDIA-SKULL1.xml