HOF or not: Mike Mussina
February 19th, 2007
Mike Mussina has 239 career wins with an ERA of 3.63. He’s fifth in career wins among active players. He has not won a Cy Young Award, but he’s a five-time All-Star and has six Gold Gloves.
Mike Mussina: HOF or not?
Discussed previously:
Pedro Martinez
Jim Edmonds
Fred McGriff
Juan Gonzalez
Definitely not. Here’s why….
He’s got the goofiest pre-pitch ritual from the stretch that I’ve ever seen!
Case closed.
I lived in No. VA during the early ’90s, which was post-Senators but pre-Nationals. Therefore I saw a lot of Moose, and I saw him in his prime. As his stats testify he is an excellent pitcher, but I’d have to wait until his career was finished to come to an opinion. I don’t think that winning a Series or an MVP is essential for being Hall worthy, but it wouldn’t hurt.
Barry Larkin now, has won an MVP AND a World Series. He belongs in the Hall!
Go Reds!
I love Mooooose!!! YES!( but i may add I am a Yankees fan so maybe i am a tad biased.
The Moose is a tricky case. His stats aren’t anything flashy, but he’s put together a remarkably consistent career, winning at least 11 games in every season since 1992. He was in or around the postseason in most of those years. If he retired today, I’d say no, but if he puts up 2-3 more years averaging 15 wins, you’d be pretty hard-pressed to keep him out.
I agree with Peter that Moose is a “tricky case.” The question I would put out is asking whether the Hall of Fame is for sustained consistency, or excellence. Obviously it’s not that simple, but I think the Hall is more about excellence than consistency. So I’d say no to Mussina. If he was consistenly top 2 or 3 in the Cy Young voting (since he hasn’t won one), I think you could make a good case for him, but he’s only finished higher than 4th once.
I agree with JWD. I think you need sustained excellence.
Consistency doesn’t count for the HOF, unless you’re consistently excellent. No.
I don’t see him making it. He has been solid, but not dominant.
On excellence vs. consistency, I’d say the Hall is about both. With Mussina, it really comes down to how much you value wins. That’s where Mussina makes me contradict myself a little. I think win totals and Cy Young / MVP / All-Star voting are HIGHLY overrated criteria, having more to do with a player’s popularity (or in the case of All-Star reserve players, whether Joe Torre is your manager) than actual ability.
On the other hand, when a guy averages a 17-9 record over the course of a 16 year career, I say he’s at least worth a look. Over a long period like that, I think the inherent bias of playing on a great team is reduced somewhat.
BBR has 4 different metrics to predict the likelihood that a player will make the HOF, based on his stats and the stats of other players currently in the Hall. Two of them say Mussina gets in, the other two say he doesn’t, which illustrates just how borderline he is.
No way, unless a steely gaze during a cold playoff game (as captured by a Yankeeophile Fox cameraman) factors into the voting…
He’s totally borderline. If he stays healthy, 275 wins and 3000+ Ks are not out of the question. He’s like the modern-day Don Sutton. I fhe can pitch effectively for a few more seasons, he can probably get in. Should he be in if that happens? I’m still torn.
I agree with Zoner, unless he reachers that neighborhood of numbers he will be a very good pither but not a HoF pitcher when he retires.
Don’t forget that every inning he has pitched is in the AL East, which is by far the toughest division in baseball.
I also think that they are definitely going to have to lower the standards for pitchers to get into the HOF. Even 250 wins is hard to come by. Mussina is currently 5th in active wins (behind Clemens, Maddux, Glavine, and Johnson), with Wells right behind him at 230. The next in line is Moyer, and there is a huge dropoff - he only has 216. Even Schilling and Martinez only have 200 wins. It is also highly likely that Moose will hit 3,000 strikeouts (he’s currently at 2,572), so that should help his case.